Timing of 935 plus?

Sorry jstpassaro, you just don't get it. Almost everything you state, especially that first paragraph, just goes to my point. They are the same device in a different package. Screen material doesn't make it a different device. Sure there are some features turned on/off - but the guts are the same with a few minor software tweaks. As for why the 935 wouldn't have the same battery issues as the F5S+, it would be more similar to the F5+ would be my expectation, similar to the non plus line. Any differences are extremely minor compared to similarities. There were connection issues on the F5 that didn't exist on the 935 but that was again most likely due to packaging and body material, not a different design.

The biggest feature for me in the plus line is the extra memory for apps as well as the mapping. I'm constantly running up against the 128k CIQ app limit as I develop apps. The 645 doesn't start to address that. Not to mention the limited battery life. There is zero in the 645 that benefits me over the 935. I'm never going to listen to music while I'm on the trails. Not sure why you even brought that device in to the conversation.

Sure there are some features turned on/off - but the guts are the same with a few minor software tweaks.

So they aren't the same device then. Similar perhaps.

The 935 (and 920xt) were anomalies to the line regarding functionality

Not sure I'd agree to this . What I would suggest is that there became a blurring of the line between a triathlete watch and a Multisport watch from the 920XT on and even more so with the 935. The 910XT I would say was the last 'genuine' triathlete watch, although I'd rate the 920 as a better device overall.

I think Garmin's got too much overlap with the product range and would be better served to go back to come clearer distinctions. Can't be all things to all people. Maybe we need to be provided with the ability to pick from a list of features and design our own device; a bit like putting together options when buying a computer or a car.

I’ve never seen anyone on the start line of a 5km, 10km, half marathon or marathon with a Fenix on their wrist.

I did. Lots of them and I know lots of F3/F5 users who I would call a "serious athlete" if we are on the same page regarding this classification. Semi-pros or whatever.

Also I was wearing a F3 on all the distances you mentioned except for a marathon which I ran with 910XT and now 935.

Would not sign your statement that the weight compared from Fenix to 935 is so much of a factor. No matter that I like the lighter 935 more of course.

I’ve never seen anyone on the start line of a 5km, 10km, half marathon or marathon with a Fenix on their wrist. Serious athletes wouldn’t wear it because it weighs 87 grams and for most serious club runners of lean build, that 87 grams is going to feel like a pendulum on their wrist. It would certainly be annoying over the marathon distance.

Wow - finally I understand why the running dynamics shows my L/R balance to be way off! :p

No seriously, I understand the 935 is preferred over the Fenix when considering running only - however claiming that the Fenix 5 is unfit for running is kind of far fetched in my mind. I've seen plenty of semi-professional runners using Fenix watches, and I think you would need to be quite an elite before such small margins starts to make any real difference.

I went from a 220 (many before that) to a F3. The Fenix was a HUGE success for garmin - giving loads of extra features over a standard forerunner series watch, and opening up the door to things like CIQ and the ability to log multiple and customer sports. I ran everything from 5k to ultra marathon with it. I am a runner who cycles to work now and then, and has logged about 20 laps in the pool (total!) if I just happen to be wearing a watch when I take the kids swimming. I loved my F3 ... HOWEVER - the weight was an issue. It would bob about on my wrist, so I had to use the wide velcro strap to keep it stable.
When the 935 came out, I jumped straight over. More or less the same internals as the Fenix range but small and light - perfect for running.
I do know loads of runners with the F3, or who have now seen the popularity of the F3 and gone for the latest version in the form of the F5. Many of these are serious runners, and would probably be happy with a 935.
The main drawback of the 645 for me is battery life - 14 hours isn't long enough, and 5 hours with music is useless. I don't care about music on the watch anyway (until it can do google play music), and I don't think many (any?) UK banks support Garmin Pay.
I will upgrade from my 935 if/when the hardware starts hitting CIQ limits, or a killer feature is delivered in a new watch. But it will have to resemble the smaller 935 form-factor.

The biggest feature for me in the plus line is the extra memory for apps as well as the mapping.

(rolls eyes) So you want what's in the f5+ price point in the 935. So again since you seem incapable of reading and absorbing (and the fact I know I'm dealing with a contrarian here), why bother doing this with a 935+ when the option is out right above the price point right now and is a unique feature for THAT PRODUCT they just released. Also, the extra memory for apps...not an issue, that additional memory is allocated only to maps and I don't know you or how many CIQ you're putting on the watch, but I've never come close to filling the 935 memory. You can't even use more than 2 CIQ apps for activities at a time, and that's on ALL of their watches.

You just want maps. Either buy a Fenix 5+ which exists only because Garmin had to address the issues with the prior make's problems, or, and again going to write it, wait until next year when Garmin most likely will make all these goodies a baseline option for their higher-end devices. Right now, there no reason, at all, to put out a "Plus" version of this watch because that niche is already filled around it and will just add to bloat. And, just follow me here...turn people away from spending more money on the more expensive watch that already has all these things included?

Why would they bother? And with that, I step away from the discussion because you are just going to talk in circles.

Wow - finally I understand why the running dynamics shows my L/R balance to be way off! :p

No seriously, I understand the 935 is preferred over the Fenix when considering running only - however claiming that the Fenix 5 is unfit for running is kind of far fetched in my mind. I've seen plenty of semi-professional runners using Fenix watches, and I think you would need to be quite an elite before such small margins starts to make any real difference.

I'm not saying that a Fenix will slow you down, but the point I was making is that most runners will still feel that 40 gram difference and it could be a distraction for some. With the 935, I barely notice the watch is on my wrist. I think 40-50 grams is the sweet spot for sports watches. I had a Fenix 5 briefly and noticed it all the time when I was running, to the point where it became a distraction. More annoyingly, the watch would spin around 90 degrees on my wrist when I started getting sweaty, which meant I had to over-tighten the strap. I put this down to the added weight and bulk of the watch, and the stainless steel back which gets slippery when covered in sweat. I also thought the GPS performance was weak compared to plastic watches I have used previously, especially near trees and buildings. So sent it back and got a 935, and I haven't looked back.

I owned a F5 for a month before I switched to the 935 but weight was no issue at all (and I'm a small guy)... You get used to it pretty fast, and especially with the sillicon band which keeps it very snug on your wrist I can't imagine it really bothering anyone.

Seen plenty of ppl way faster and running more then me with an F5 or something along those lines... Sure, I now have the 935 and it's perfect and I would probably have to adjust a bit if I'd start using an F5 again but experience shows that's a matter of a day or so.

Still no 935+ any rumors, thoughts or speculations on when we will se an upgrade:)?