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HRM-Tri - Download Heart Rate - why does it change TE etc?

Hi, I've posted a little about some behaviour that I don't understand over in a thread about continuous monitoring by the HRM-Tri strap, but I'd like to open a new thread regarding this behaviour as its separate from continuous monitoring when outside of an activity, and either a bug or some setup option that I have missed.

I have previously trained and competed wearing a Forerunner 610 with an accompanying chest heart rate strap.

I purchased the 935 Tri bundle two weeks ago and started running using the packaged HRM-Tri strap. When I put the HRM-Tri on, I get notification from the watch that it is connected, and the watch itself is set to automatically set my upper HR (currently at around 193), and resting is using average of 50bpm. I have been keeping the watch on the HR screen so I can see what my HR is during the run.

I noticed that upon long run completion, the TE values were often 5.0 and 0.0, so scrolling around the menus post race I noticed the DOWNLOAD HEART RATE option. I selected that and the watch seemed to pull data from the HRM-Tri and then processed them. The TE values generally changed quite dramatically, along with other metrics (the TE was the one that caught my eye).

It has been suggested to me that perhaps my watch was losing the connection with the HRM-Tri mid run, and using the OHR instead, so DOWNLOAD HEART RATE was feeding the watch with more accurate data post run. Today I decided to test that out.

I ran 15km or so today, with the Wrist Heart Rate sensor disabled (Settings/Sensors & Accessories/Wrist Heart Rate/Status -> OFF). I put the HRM-Tri on, and the watch said it was connected, I waited for a GPS signal, and started my Run activity. The screen was set to display HR so I could see whether it was reading from the HRM-Tri, and at no point during the run did I see a blank value on this screen.

Upon completion, I saved the run and checked out the TE values:

5.0 aerobic
0.0 anaerobic

Thought that was a bit strange, so I clicked on DOWNLOAD HEART RATE to see what it would do (note that the Wrist Heart Rate sensor was disabled, so the watch has only used HRM-Tri data to calculate that TE value). The watch showed me the DOWNLOADING STORED HR DATA screen, then the PROCESSING DOWNLOADED HR DATA screen, then HR DATA DOWNLOAD SUCCESSFUL. I then checked the TE values:

2.9 aerobic
2.0 anaerobic

Can anyone explain why this is happening? Are people who are not selecting DOWNLOAD HEART RATE following a run activity when they are using an HRM-Tri getting inaccurate data? Is there some setting burried somewhere that I've missed or incorrectly configured?

Why are the values take pre and post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE so different if the watch has only used the HRM-Tri during a run?
  • I'm going for a training run later, and will attempt to upload to Garmin Connect the data from the run before selecting DOWNLOAD HEART RATE, and then again following DOWNLOAD HEART RATE if it lets me do it.

    Watch is set to every second recording.

    edit: Support have just asked me to try the current beta 6.83 software, so I'll give that a shot and see what happens.
  • I installed 6.83 this morning.

    Went for a 15km run at lunch with the wrist based monitor OFF and the HRM-Tri paired and connected - display on the watch was set to HR so I could see at a glance if the HRM-Tri was sending data to the watch. The below is the TE and Time in Zone information:

    Completed RUN activity and clicked SAVE:

    5.0aerobic
    0.1anaerobic
    z5-44:33
    z4-15:50
    z3-2:43
    z2-0:25
    z1-0:13

    Post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE download

    5.0
    0.0
    z5-57:48
    z4-3:17
    z3-1:23
    z2-0:25
    z1-0:15

    Under Settings/User Profile/Heart Rate, my Max.HR (193bpm), and Resting HR (49bpm) has not changed, neither have the Zones themselves:
    Based on %HRR
    Max(Z5)=90-100%
    Threshold(Z4)=80-90%
    Aerobic(Z3)=70-80%
    Easy(Z2)=60-70%
    Warm Up(Z1)=50-60%

    No Sport Heart Rate Zones are configured.

    Once again, why the change in data when selecting DOWNLOAD HEART RATE? The watch was not getting HR data from anywhere other than the HRM-Tri during the run.

    I've taken copies of the FIT files from the watch post run and post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE, see if support can figure out why this is happening.
  • Here are the uploads to Garmin Connect - notice the Time in Zones is different, the Calories, the TE slightly different this time (have seen bigger drops with 6.10 when selecting DOWNLOAD HEART RATE). Several of the lap average HR values are higher post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE also (although the average HR for the RUN remains the same).

    The Heart Rate data plots look slightly different. Despite the fact that the watch was paired to the HRM-Tri throughout the run, it doesn't look as though it measures it as accurately as it could. Only by selecting DOWNLOAD HEART RATE are you getting the most accurate dataset (by the looks of things).

    Post RUN activity, SAVE: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2364546111

    Post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2364593528

    Should users always select DOWNLOAD HEART RATE upon completing a run activity when wearing the HRM-Tri, even when the wrist based heart rate monitor is OFF? Looks that way to me at present. It may be working as designed, but it doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere that it is required if you want to get accurate data from the HRM-Tri (assuming the downloaded dataset is more accurate than the dataset acquired during the run activity when it is paired and connected).

    I'll try a slow run tomorrow to see how that looks on this firmware.
  • Just curious really, if you have HR data recorded with TE calculated at the end of the run, why are you using the Download Heart Rate option?

    My understanding is that is for situations when data doesn't automatically download to the watch at the end of an activity. I use the HRM swim quite a bit, mine has always downloaded ok at the end so I have never used the option, but I did have to on my F3HR a few times.
  • Question is, why is this data different, why does it generate different values for TE, calories, heart rate zones etc?

    Which is the more accurate of the two (guessing that the Download Heart Rate data is, but it's not mentioned anywhere)?
  • [...]
    Post RUN activity, SAVE: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2364546111

    Post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2364593528

    [...]


    Would you send me the two .tcx files? I'd like to analyse them with FiTFileRepairTool and Excel.
    Yesterday I did a bike ride with HRM-Tri. I saved the activity, synced and afterwards I've downloaded HRM data and synced again. I got two acitvities but they are the same in terms of TE etc.
    I also compared HR data in Excel, they are identical. So I wonder if it's activity type/profile depended.
  • Just noticed something else weird:

    I've configured zones in garmin connect to use %HRR (configured it on the website, i see it correctly on the mobile iphone app also)
    193max HR
    49resting HR
    Zones then as follows:
    5 >179
    4 164-179
    3 150-164
    2 135-150
    1 121-135

    The above zones are reflected in the settings on my watch, everything looks OK, and no custom training zones have been created.

    After a run today, the time in zones as displayed on my watch is as follows:
    5 16:50
    4 06:26
    3 03:16
    2 00:48
    1 00:27

    When I look at "time in zones" in the activity in garmin connect on my phone, I noticed that the zones HR info was wrong (the zones themselves are correct under user settings):
    5 >168
    4 161-168
    3 150-160
    2 135-149
    1 110-134

    I've had a look through the TCX data, and the HR data is different pre and post DOWNLOAD HEART RATE (tested this again today on a short 6km run). The difference leads to different Time in Zones information on todays run.
  • Have you raised a ticket at beta team and send them your pre/post files?
  • It's being handled by support at the moment (they recommended hard reset first, then beta installation, now looking at the data). I'll keep this thread updated as we go along.
  • Question is, why is this data different, why does it generate different values for TE, calories, heart rate zones etc?

    Which is the more accurate of the two (guessing that the Download Heart Rate data is, but it's not mentioned anywhere)?


    Well yes that is a valid question too. Just curious as to why you were downloading when you had the data in the first place.