Garmin lactate threshold estimate vs Friel test

Thanks for the response @TIMGROSE

I have tried the dedicated LTHR test three times, each time it has finished and failed to determine my LTHR. That is why I looked for alternative methods to determine LTHR. I found it interesting that my garmin was finally able to determine LTHR with the 30 min test, when it couldn't with its own dedicated test. I have had the device since early august. I might give the dedicated test another go in a few weeks, perhaps now that its primed with LTHR estimate the dedicated test will give me a value.

My max HR is 205, I can hit this value on any real hard run, but have never seen it get any higher.

I could just maintain 4:22 min/km for 10km, but not much further, so maybe its a tad fast by your standard. I did the 30 min test on a flat aths track and my pace varied between 4:08 and 4:28, but was consistently around 4:22 for the last 15 min (I guess I need more experience on how to pace a 30 min run).

How do you know your LT pace is between 10km and HM? Have you compared to a lab test? Or to the garmin value? With the extra information above, can you suggest which value I should keep as my LTHR and LT pace?

Appreciate your help

It was largely just by reading some articles and also knowing what I can roughly do. Last winter, I got some better auto detected LTHR values when was marathon training and was often doing approx marathon pace longish tempo runs where HR was starting low and I upped the pace and hence HR a bit as went along.

The dedicated test I found quite hard and you really have to be very careful to stay easy early on but ever so gradually wind the pace up so that by the next section it is not a big effort to get there or worse have to ease of.

Can you post the GC link to this?

4:22 is probably better given what you said but 191 compared to max 205 is a very high percentage. What was your max HR in this test?

I can support Tim's estimate, my LTHR pace is almost exactly the average of my 10k pace and my HMRP. I have tested numerous ways including Friel Test, Garmin Estimate and also using BSX Insight Muscle Oxygenation test. They do not all agree, but I use the 3 to determine where I think it is, and generally give a lot of weight to the BSX Test as this has been shown to have very close alignment with lab tested results.

HMRP - 7:21 min / mile
10k Pace - 7:05 min / mile
LTHR Pace - 7:12 min / mile

HR is so dependent on so many conditions including temperature and humidity, sleep, etc, etc, etc. That is why I prefer SMO2% more and more now when I am reviewing my performance. Having said that to determine my HR ranges I ran the BSX Test on a treadmill at 1% incline and then I know for me my HR is 5 BPM lower on a TM for the same paces as an average day running in average conditions, so I modified the result to account for this as I do most of my training outdoors. The issue you will run into quickly is on a very hot and humid day your HR will be 10-15 BPM higher for a given RPE and pace compared to a cool day and trying to maintain HR training in these conditions becomes difficult, so I revert to RPE and SMO2% usually in these cases, rather than purely HR ranges.

Thanks TIMGROSE and CHIMPWARE

Interesting to note that HR is so dependent on ambient conditions (though makes sense). Its was only 24 during my run. However, this is quite hot for Belgium, and could have affected my HR.

During this test my max HR was 199. I didn't push overly hard at any point, was just aiming to hold a steady pace for the 30 mins. The GC link is https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1347012484

I will try the dedicated LTHR test again in a week or so and focus on the points TIMGROSE mentioned. I will report back on how it goes.

In the mean time I will take 4:22 min/km at my LT pace and take the average of the garmin and friel values for the LTHR = 187.

Interesting thread so I'm subscribing.

An unrelated question: how did you get tss to show up in the GC stats? Simply linkinging to your TP account?

Really interesting catch @darrencroton, looks like he is using the ConnectIQ data filed hrTSS

https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/76071844-e7b2-47a7-a3e6-6908f2e2db55

which records the TSS to the FIT file and GC is now displaying some of this data in that new area. It does not work for all data recorded to the FIT file I can confirm as I record SMO2% and Thb to the FIT file, which I know because SportTracks displays that using the ConnectIQ datafield for those metrics, so must work for some, but not all ConnectIQ data fields, Maybe cumulative ones like Strava Suffer Score will work this way as well, will try it out today.

My max HR is 205, I can hit this value on any real hard run

Then it's probably not your maximum heart rate...

Max heart rate will leave you feeling ill for two days (the VO2max tests I did at uni spring to mind). I know my max heart rste is 184 because that's the last recorded measurement before I fell off the treadmill semi-conscious. ;) I never see above 181, even on intervals.

Don't trust 220-age, it's rubbish.

Then it's probably not your maximum heart rate...

Max heart rate will leave you feeling ill for two days (the VO2max tests I did at uni spring to mind). I know my max heart rste is 184 because that's the last recorded measurement before I fell off the treadmill semi-conscious. ;) I never see above 181, even on intervals.

Don't trust 220-age, it's rubbish.

I think you're being a little hard here.

They didn't say they used 220-age to get their maxHR, they said that's repeatedly the peak from really hard runs. Perhaps equivalent to your intervals. And if you care about a difference of 3bpm for your maxHR you're probably over analysing things a little.

Interesting thread so I'm subscribing.

An unrelated question: how did you get tss to show up in the GC stats? Simply linkinging to your TP account?

I added the ConnectIQ data field for Strava Suffer Score and TSSHr to my ride this morning at the TSSHr value shows up in GC in teh ConnectIQ Data area, but nothing for Strava Suffer Score.