Pace/speed alerts issues and pace recording inaccurate

I noticed that current pace is off but also when I do custom workout where, for instance, speed is set to be between 11 hm/h and 13 km/h and current speed is showing 12.5 I tend to get alerts I am too fast.

• Pace range alerts on the FR230/235 are triggered by current pace values.
  
• Pace target alerts for individual steps in custom workout are triggered by lap pace values (with each step automatically being a separate lap).
  

It seems that custom workouts don't look at current pace

That's right – and by design.

See also https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?347075-Pace-Alert-Average-Pace&p=825458#post825458

Lap pace in custom range workout doesn't make sense

Why would you want to see your lap pace as something that should be compared to custom workout limit? The idea of the limit is not to go go of specific range. Default lap is 1 km. So is my target speed is set in 13-15 km/h range and I alternate between 10 and 18 km/h every 100m what you are saying I won't get any alerts (since average is ~14 km/h after couple of alternations) although it is something that you actually want to avoid and keep 14 km/h speed ALL the time.

Is this the same for HR, cadence and other things or just pace/speed? That is when I set HR range in custom workout does it show alert for current HR or lap HR?

Consider that you have limit from 12 to 13 km/h for 5 mins and you run 16km/h the first minute. You would then have to run ~11km/h for the rest of those 5 mins just to get back in range and you would constantly get annoying alerts if you actually tried to keep the remaining 4 mins in range 12-13 km/h.

This kind "lap" alert system actually does exact opposite of what you want - and that is notification that you are CURRENTLY out of range. This would only work if you were to set lap to be let's say 100m but I doubt this is what you want to do.

So is my target speed is set in 13-15 km/h range and I alternate between 10 and 18 km/h every 100m what you are saying I won't get any alerts (since average is ~14 km/h after couple of alternations)

In that case you should create a custom workout with repeats of 100-metre steps, and let the watch guide you to remain within the alternating target pace for each 100-metre stretch.

Is this the same for HR, cadence and other things or just pace/speed? That is when I set HR range in custom workout does it show alert for current HR or lap HR?

I don't know, I haven't tried. You're welcome to test it for yourself, now that you know the programmed behaviour you're trying to ascertain.

This would only work if you were to set lap to be let's say 100m but I doubt this is what you want to do.

It would be exactly what I'd want to do if I was doing alternating 100-metre intervals; my ‘performance’ over a one-kilometre stretch (i.e. five fast and five slow intervals) would be meaningless for that type of training.

Sorry but I think you missed the point. If I have 20min section in which I want to keep average speed of 14km/h(13-15) WITHOUT any intervals you WANT to be notified if you go too fast for a 100m (or to slow) or for that fact instantly, but you WOULD NOT be notified if you ran 100m at 10km/h and 100m at 18km/h since the lap average would be 14km/h. Note that in my "20min section" example I DO NOT WANT to run 100m 10-18 interval, it's just an extreme example of going over or under speed limit or runners error in judgement.

For small intervals of 30/60sec I haven't noticed it but it is a problem (to say the least) with longer sections.

Check your arithmetic and your assumptions

If I have 20min section in which I want to keep average speed of 14km/h(13-15) WITHOUT any intervals you WANT to be notified if you go too fast for a 100m (or to slow) or for that fact instantly, but you WOULD NOT be notified if you ran 100m at 10km/h…

You would be alerted, every 15‑seconds or so during those first 100 metres, when you ran initially at 10‑km/h that you're too slow – i.e. at a speed less than 13‑km/h specified as the lower threshold of the target speed range.

… and 100m at 18km/h since the lap average would be 14km/h.

How so?

10‑km/h = 2.778 metres per second
18‑km/h = 5.0 metres per second

so the first 200‑metres would take
([sup]100[/sup]/[sub]2.778[/sub]‑+‑[sup]100[/sup]/[sub]5.0[/sub]) = 56.0‑seconds to traverse.

[sup]200[/sup]/[sub]56.0[/sub] metres per second = 12.86‑km/h

so your lap speed would remain below the lower threshold of 13‑km/h for the entirety of the first 200‑metres, even though you have sped up to 18‑km/h. You would therefore continue to get slow alerts for the second 100-metre stretch.

Note that in my "20min section" example I DO NOT WANT to run 100m 10-18 interval, it's just an extreme example of going over or under speed limit or runners error in judgement.

The time to commence corrective action is upon receiving the first slow alert, before you have even made it past the first 50‑metres.

Consider that you have limit from 12 to 13 km/h for 5 mins and you run 16km/h the first minute.

You would be alerted up to four times that you were running too fast in that first minute, if you didn't start the step/lap from a stand-still. Why wouldn't you respond and correct your pace upon seeing the first alert?

If you cannot instinctively judge your pace and/or speed well … well, that's why you wear a watch that can tell you what your current speed and lap speed (among other metrics) are. The alert tones and vibrations from the watch cannot convey to you by how much you're outside of the target speed range, and you have to look at the watch's display anyway to understand how you're doing. You can set up a data screen to tell you your current speed and lap speed (among other metrics).

Given alerts are given at 15-second intervals, if you started the lap at 16‑km/h and continued until the first too-fast alert, you could slow down to 12‑km/h (guided by your current speed displayed by the watch) for the next 45‑seconds – and cop three more too-fast alerts – to bring your lap speed back within target range to 13‑km/h, then carefully manage your current speed from there on. Or you could go significantly slower than 12‑km/h to get lap speed back in range more quickly. Or you could simply decide/accept that you blew the target speed range for that step/lap, but don't care to salvage it (in spite of the watch doing its job and continually alert you that you're out of range); you'll just do better for the following lap. That's your call. On the other hand, how the feature works is not your call to make, and whether it is a bug is not your call either.

I am really not here to troll. The point of my 10-18 example is that once you reach average which is in your speed range you would not get alerts at all. I could have made it 10s-10s 10-20 km/h example, it wouldn't matter.

Consider this - You are driving exactly 50 km/h for let's say 20 km.. Speed limit is 60 km/h. You speed up to 100. Policeman stops you over. You argue that your 22km average is (let's say) 51.3 at that point and that your navigation hasn't alerted you cos you are in you lap range. You be the judge of who is right here.

I know it's not my call to say if it's a bug or not but after spending 350$ on 235 and finding out that HR doesn't work AT ALL for intervals (and that is something nobody said nothing about, it was stated as a fact after 100 of threads) and then buying 230 with strap and finding out that Garmin has made this to custom workouts you can imagine I might be a little pi**ed off.

You are supposed to get INSTANT feedback you are out of range, not 5 min after your lap is over. Especially if the same is done for HR. Or at least add an option that allows to what is range compared to.

Speed limit is 60 km/h. You speed up to 100. Policeman stops you over.

For the n[sup]th[/sup] time, the watch's range alerts – specifically, the Fast Alert – can tell you when your current speed is above a preset limit. It's analogous to the speed warning function – specifically, against speed limit warning 2 – you'd find in an Audi A4, for example; even then, it is advised that:
Please bear in mind that, even with the speed warning function, it is still important to keep a check on the car's speed with the speedometer and to observe the statutory speed limits.
which, in terms of running with the FR230/235, means checking the (current) Speed data field displayed on your watch.

You are supposed to get INSTANT feedback you are out of range, not 5 min after your lap is over.

Again, if you're too fast or too slow from the start of a step/lap in a custom workout, for which a speed-based intensity range has been specified, you'd be alerted at 15-second intervals.

Garmin (with the 620) did briefly experiment with having current pace (not lap pace) as the one used for target pace in workouts.

It did not work well because
(a) You got lots of false alerts due to small errors in current pace
(b) Your pace does tend to change a fair bit anyway due to variances in surface, altitude, wind etc etc

For me a single workout step only makes sense if you want to try and run at a fairly even effort and hence pace.

So, to me, lap pace makes a lot more sense here as it is far more stable and reflects that even effort much better.

If say you want to run a 7 minute mile by doing half of it 6 min/mile pace and the rest at 8 then it kind of suggests you need more workout steps if you want to have pace targets.

Garmin (with the 620) did briefly experiment with having current pace (not lap pace) as the one used for target pace in workouts.

It did not work well because
(a) You got lots of false alerts due to small errors in current pace
(b) Your pace does tend to change a fair bit anyway due to variances in surface, altitude, wind etc etc

For me a single workout step only makes sense if you want to try and run at a fairly even effort and hence pace.

So, to me, lap pace makes a lot more sense here as it is far more stable and reflects that even effort much better.

Agreed. I do both short intervals (from 30 sec all the way to 500m) and then long ones (from 5 minutes all the way to 10-12mins). In the short ones, the instant pace is not stable enough to get a good idea of your level of effort - in a 30s interval, it will take at least 10s for both your actual speed and the indicated pace to get somewhat stable. So lap average pace is a much better indication, and I can see why many running watches will use it for pace limit warnings rather than instant pace. For long intervals, Savage711 does have a point; the use of average lap pace makes the alert much less responsive. The simple solution: I don't use pace targets/alerts... My default display is lap average pace, instant pace, and HR. Lap pace tells me how I'm doing in the current interval (short or long), instant pace tells me if I'm above/below the average, so I have everything I need. This works in pacing a race as well, using 1-km auto-laps. I've tried the target-method back with my FR610, I found I never really knew if the watch was telling me I was too fast, too slow or the interval was over... On the 3rd set of 8x200m, your brain is not very good at finding the difference. So no alerts. If it beeps, the agony is over. Period.