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School me on Cadence

Max556
over 9 years ago
I got the watch in early Feb ’16. Forgive my mixing of metric and imperial, but that’s how I roll. 

SOME INFORMATION:
I’ve run 5k, at least 4 days each week for years
I’m 6’2” 200lbs
My comfortable stride is consistently 1.2 to 1.23 meters
My comfortable cadence is 148-155
My normal 5K HR is 149-156 … up to 170 going up big hills
My average speed is 7 mph
My best 5K time is 26.06 – 7.2 mph and 155 cadence. HR was 155-170
My goal is a 25 minute 5K.

So, what is cadence lock exactly … ?
Is my HR locking with my cadence, or my cadence locking with my HR?
My HR and cadence numbers have a significant overlap … am I experiencing cadence lock or is it just coincidental that they overlap?

How do people get cadence of 180+?! I have tried reducing my stride, but it feels so wrong (I actually injured myself trying this … strained a muscle on backside of knee). The only other thing I can think of is simply to run faster, but I’m not sure I can maintain too much faster than 7.2 mph for an extended 5k run … maybe a bit I suppose. However, the faster I run, the longer my stride becomes.

I have good running form, front to mid-foot strike. Until fall of 2015, I ran barefoot for the previous 5 years, and believe me, you learn good running form doing that or you pay for it!

Whew! Sorry, that’s a lot of questions! I’m just trying to get more scientific with my running. Until I got my watch, I was more like Forrest Gump … I just ran without thinking too much about it.

Max
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    I got the watch in early Feb ’16. Forgive my mixing of metric and imperial, but that’s how I roll. 

    SOME INFORMATION:
    I’ve run 5k, at least 4 days each week for years
    I’m 6’2” 200lbs
    My comfortable stride is consistently 1.2 to 1.23 meters
    My comfortable cadence is 148-155
    My normal 5K HR is 149-156 … up to 170 going up big hills
    My average speed is 7 mph
    My best 5K time is 26.06 – 7.2 mph and 155 cadence. HR was 155-170
    My goal is a 25 minute 5K.

    So, what is cadence lock exactly … ?
    Is my HR locking with my cadence, or my cadence locking with my HR?
    My HR and cadence numbers have a significant overlap … am I experiencing cadence lock or is it just coincidental that they overlap?

    How do people get cadence of 180+?! I have tried reducing my stride, but it feels so wrong (I actually injured myself trying this … strained a muscle on backside of knee). The only other thing I can think of is simply to run faster, but I’m not sure I can maintain too much faster than 7.2 mph for an extended 5k run … maybe a bit I suppose. However, the faster I run, the longer my stride becomes.

    I have good running form, front to mid-foot strike. Until fall of 2015, I ran barefoot for the previous 5 years, and believe me, you learn good running form doing that or you pay for it!

    Whew! Sorry, that’s a lot of questions! I’m just trying to get more scientific with my running. Until I got my watch, I was more like Forrest Gump … I just ran without thinking too much about it.

    Max


    Cadence lock is when your HR locks onto your cadence due to the movement of your arms causing light fluctuations in the oHR sensor that are picked up as HR pulses.

    It hard to say whether it's coincidence or actual cadence lock, but after some time based on your effort you can gauge if during a particular run you experienced cadence lock. When both cadence and HR numbers are close (during a run) and I suspect cadence lock is happening, sometimes I will try to increase or decrease my cadence but not my pace to see if HR follows that change.

    As for cadence of 180+, it's usually hard to do slow especially if you are tall (I am 6"). Short people can do it easily but for tall people, it'll feel like you're running with your pants around your ankles. I started running with cadence numbers of 150-155. I read about 180+ cadence so I started working on increasing mine. It felt really weird for a couple of months but I worked up to 175 at easy pace. I have now settled at 165-170 for easy pace and it naturally goes up to 180-190 for race pace.

    Higher cadence helps your efficiency in running and drastically reduces your chances of injury because of good form. But it must eventually feel natural and you have to keep a fluid motion. Sometimes, pushing for a higher cadence can make you actually brake a little at each step which hurts your efficiency so you have to work on the overall form to get it right.

    Also, don't go from 150 to 180 in one run. Do over a couple of months to prevent injury and allow your muscles to adjust. For me, my glutes really felt it when first working on cadence but they adjusted and now it's just natural.
  • 0 over 9 years ago
    As has been said, you just reduce your stride to up your cadence whilst maintaining the same speed. It feels like you are shuffling at first, really weird. Also it's hard to maintain and you have to increase effort as your legs are moving quicker. By the way you hear the magic 180 as a goal but this is my normal cadence on training runs. On a 5K I can get upto 200 when going for it so try and work upto 180 on normal workouts and as you try to get faster your cadence will get quicker.

    CW
  • 0 over 9 years ago
    The other posts pretty much said it all.

    A couple of years ago I spent an entire summer working on my cadence. I was a very bad over-strider and was having injury issues due to it. I went from a low 150's cadence to a low 180's cadence. (I'm 6'2", for what it's worth) I trained using a metronome app on my phone. I started out with easy short runs once or twice per week and ran with the click of the metronome. Once that cadence felt natural (usually took a couple of weeks), I would increase it ~10%. It took a full summer, but now it feels natural and I don't have to think about it.

    Good luck!
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    I wanted to add a few points to this discussion:

    Cadence will correlate with your pace. The idea that there's something special about 180 is a bit of a urban legend. Don't obsess over that number.

    The goal is to actually have your foot fall under your centre of mass as you run, and not out in front. For the average person (average height, weight etc) running at a solid (e.g. race or near race) longer distance pace (not sprinting), this is going to be somewhere around 175-185spm. Cadence is just a proxy for what is actually good form when running.

    Hope that helps.
  • 0 over 9 years ago
    Interesting thread, never really given this much thought before.
    Surely it would also depend on what pace you run at?
    Someone who runs at 6 min miles and someone who runs 9 minute miles cant both have the same running form with the same cadence? But a quick google does show any real differentiation in ideal/recomended cadence vs pace on any of the articles I've read.
    Looks like I generally settle at about 175 cadence for 7 min miles, with upto 20 higher if doing intervals. I might try pushing this a little higher for the same pace and see how it feels.
  • 0 over 9 years ago
    Was looking at cadence levels from some very good standard runners in the London Marathon. Ally Dixon (leading UK athlete - 2:31) averaged about 206! That's the highest I saw but did see one sub 2:20 UK male over 200.
    Equally some were more towards 180 and I have seen decent club runners (say 34-35 10K) that only get to about 170 so it sort of takes all sorts.

    Generally though faster runners have higher cadence and indeed, as noted, cadence increases for yourself when you increase your pace. I might "jog" about 180 but get to around 200 if say do a flat out 800 or something and somewhere in between say in a 10K race. Indeed checking back I averaged 188 for a 2:53 marathon in March. I'm "tall" (1.95m) too :)

    As a rule of thumb I would think that if your cadence is relatively slow when you compare it others running similar paces then probably worth at least investigating if trying to increase might help. Never heard of anybody trying to reduce their cadence however. It did try to see how it feels to "stride out" more and it did feel odd - felt like I was trying to excessively bound along.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    I found that when I gradually increased my cadence to between 175-180 for easy paced runs it felt strange at first, but after a few weeks came naturally. I found that I used less energy and just seemed to hit a sweet spot where I felt like I could run all day. But I got tired of monitoring HR, Cadence , pace all at once. My natural cadence at slow to easy pace is around 165-170 and I'm happy enough with that. Some times I try and up the cadence for recovery runs - I find it put less of a strain on my hip flexors, especially after a long run or race. I also run at a higher cadence if my hamstrings are feeling a bit niggly. It works for me anyway One thing I did notice is that my cadence is naturally around 180 for any faster paced runs, so once I discovered that I was happy enough that I was being efficient when racing. One benefit I got form monitoring cadence is that when my cadence starts to drop its a sign that my form is falling apart - usually at the end of a long run. I do find it very hard to maintain a higher cadence when running on grass, rough trails or any other type of uneven surface
  • 0 over 9 years ago
    Great replies, thanks!

    I was using my height as an excuse for my lower cadence, but I see some of you are also 6+ feet tall, so I guess that theory is out. I am aware that the number 180 is not necessarily the golden number for everyone, but I think it’s obvious that 150-155 is too low. I’m not really a racer, but more of an average Joe who runs 5K about 5 times a week just to maintain a good level of health and shape, so I don’t expect to keep up with hard core marathon runners. I really believed I had good form, but I have been convinced there is room for improvement.

    I like the idea of improving efficiency and reducing the chance of injury, and actually did notice higher energy on some runs when I recently tried to reduce my stride. My injury (more of a tweak) may have just been a coincidence or perhaps I was trying too much too fast. This time I will concentrate on foot fall under my mass as one of you suggested. I also think I will make it my goal to accomplish this over this coming summer, rather than in a few weeks (that’ll be tough as I can be impatient!). Using a metronome also sounds like a good idea … too bad this watch doesn’t have one built in.

    Also, once I can get my cadence higher than my running HR, I can then also see if I am experiencing cadence lock or not. Once again thanks for your advice … I hope I can post back here in a couple months and report a better cadence number!

    Max
  • 0 over 8 years ago
    At 6'3 myself, I can't imagine managing to run at a 155 cadence.... those must be some seriously long overstrides!

    I've never really given much thought to my own cadence while running, it usually works itself out to be right around the suggested.
    My lowest cadences come when trudging uphill, barely moving, and it's still usually 160s. Normal cadence for my jogging pace is about 170. If I'm pushing it at race pace, I hold right around 180. For interval work I get up between 190 - 210 depending on the length of the sprint.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to lightmatter

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