Firmware 4.3

It means – assuming the feature is enabled in the firmware settings, of course – the user's heart rate is being sampled continually, 24‑hours a day, seven days a week; the measurement process is not designed to cease or be interrupted, while the watch is operating normally and in the absence of user intervention (e.g. altering the relevant settings).

It does not mean the HR is measured continuously (i.e. the opposite of having discrete samples taken at intervals), in the way an analog speedometer in a car would measure speed continuously. It does not mean the measurement process will use a fixed interval consistently around the clock, such that captured data points are evenly spaced. It certainly does not mean (or imply) that the watch will necessarily do what you want or expect as the user, or be guided by your preferences; you get what you're given in terms of the non-user-accessible parameters governing that feature.

Again, the process runs continually 24×7, but not continuously in the fashion of an analogue measuring instrument. Even if a digital measuring instrument took readings every second consistently, it still would not be measuring continuously over any interval.

You can ask, but the collateral (e.g. product data-sheets, owner's manual) published by Garmin does not state, then you and I aren't in a position to know – and there is no implied entitlement as customers to be advised of that parameter, if it was (or were) indeed a scalar quantity.

ASmugdill I am struggling to understand why you responded to my post. You clearly answer as if you had definitive knowledge, however you go on to say "You and I aren't in a position to know". Which is it ? What is the basis of your (imho) seemingly negative response towards the question.

Garmin state "An optical sensor measures heart rate 24/7 at the wrist" . I only quote this as they say measured as opposed to sampled. No further information is given as to sampling frequency or method in advertising or specifications. A reasonable man would take this to mean "all of the time" in the absence of clarifying information and not "at unspecified possibly irregular intervals during the day".

I know the product is digital and will sample readings, however the veracity of the results and therefore the interpretation of any reading is influenced by the data collection methods used especially if the accuracy of some outputs is brought into question by a significant number of users. You may be content with what you have (I take it you own a 235) but I am currently not and asked the question on the chance a forum user MIGHT be able to ENLIGHTEN me.

You clearly have a lot of knowledge about these products and I would encourage you to educate users rather than try and pull apart their questions as they might have significantly less understanding than you have and would benefit from your help.

You clearly answer as if you had definitive knowledge, however you go on to say "You and I aren't in a position to know". Which is it ? What is the basis of your (imho) seemingly negative response towards the question.

I don't know what the default sampling rate in the current (or any previous) version of the firmware is; I don't even know if it's a scalar quantity, as opposed to a function that takes in the time of day as one of its parameters. My seemingly negative response conveys exactly the principle in which I positively believe – that as users we're not legally, contractually or morally entitled to be told what the rate is, irrespective of whether we're interested to know and whether we expressly ask.

No further information is given as to sampling frequency or method in advertising or specifications. A reasonable man would take this to mean "all of the time" in the absence of clarifying information and not "at unspecified possibly irregular intervals during the day".

I've already given my argument that 24×7 means a continual process not designed to cease or be suspended at a particular time or between particular hours, as opposed to being ready to serve and/or satisfy the user's interests at any moment. The analogy that comes to mind is a 24×7 Customer Service hotline; you can ring it at any time, and reasonably expect your call to be answered, but it does not mean you'll receive customer service whenever you call, as opposed to having to wait for an indefinite and variable period of time in the queue, or that you'll be satisfied with what you receive when your call is answered by someone.

I know the product is digital and will sample readings, however the veracity of the results and therefore the interpretation of any reading is influenced by the data collection methods used especially if the accuracy of some outputs is brought into question by a significant number of users.

Yes, and unless you subpoena the information from Garmin in a lawsuit, I say you (and I, in the capacity of a fellow product owner) are not entitled to be given it, let alone be in a position to force Garmin to disclose it more widely.

You may be content with what you have (I take it you own a 235) but I am currently not and asked the question on the chance a forum user MIGHT be able to ENLIGHTEN me.

Whether I'm content, satisfied and/or happy isn't the point. Putting us users “back in the box” in terms of what we're actually entitled to, from a systems thinking point of view, instead of pushing a vested interest (for our “side”) is what I want to do in a discussion forum, because everyone else seems to be too focussed about their personal values as a customer, instead of being interested in discussion for the intellectual aspect of exchanging ideas. I don't care about their satisfaction and I don't need them to care about mine; I come here for discussion, and not leverage or capability to increase the subjective value of the product I bought.

Don't try to understand his posts. He doesn't know anymore about the watch than the rest of us. He likes to use many words to say next to nothing. We don't have a right to get a working product, we don't get to know details of a product we purchased, no one should have a choice in features, everyone thinks they are entitled and he is the only voice of reason and people should think like him.

Most people are not happy with the 24x7 sample rates. They have been changed multiple times, all seemly with the thought of less sampling to improve advertised battery life. One of the last updates makes it appear to have increased sample rates, but others have dug deeper to find it's a lot of false noise to look more active. Now HR data sometimes is not recorded on runs unless you force the watch to lock into a HR before starting a run. RHR is more of a mess than ever (seeing lower rates being recorded but not being used). I think we are all hoping for future firmware to improve the product. There was a thread, may still be a sticky, that was asking how HR sampling could be improved. Garmin knows of this and was looking at our feed back. Hopefully they will listen and make the 24x7 sampling user configurable (increase sample rates at the expense of battery life), which may cause smug to lose his mind.

The analogy that comes to mind is a 24×7 Customer Service hotline; you can ring it at any time, and reasonably expect your call to be answered, but it does not mean you'll receive customer service whenever you call, as opposed to having to wait for an indefinite and variable period of time in the queue, or that you'll be satisfied with what you receive when your call is answered by someone.

Yes, and unless you subpoena the information from Garmin in a lawsuit, I say you (and I, in the capacity of a fellow product owner) are not entitled to be given it, let alone be in a position to force Garmin to disclose it more widely.

I come here for discussion, .

Two Points:

One, oddly given your analogy I did ring the Customer Support Line that was there at the advertised times. I had to wait but nothing unexpected there as that was the first information given when auto answered. I then spoke to a Garmin representative who did not require a Supeona to supply me with both verbal and written information. It was not technically detailed but it did explain what was happened with the sensor and how it sampled. Surprisingly also it was communicated in a refreshingly supportive way. The response I received was as follows:

"Thank you for contacting Garmin Europe.

Garmin fitness devices that feature Elevate heart rate technology measure your heart rate at your wrist using a optical heart rate sensor. This sensor samples your heart rate occasionally, increasing in frequency as the device detects increased movement such as going for a walk or run.

From the device's heart rate screen you are provided the following information:
•Last sampled or current heart rate
•Average resting heart rate

When you first view the heart rate screen the icon for current heart rate will either be flashing or solid. When flashing, the device's heart rate sensor is attempting to detect your pulse in order to provide you with your current heart rate. Until the device detects your pulse, it will display the heart rate that was last sampled. Once the heart icon is solid and no longer flashing, the device has locked onto your pulse and will display your current heart rate for 30 seconds before returning to your default home screen.

If there is anything else I can help you with then please let me know. Alternatively you can search for a solution here: www.garmin.co.uk/support"

Two: I must have a different dictionary to yours as I don't recognise any "discussion" having taken place between us.


"It is one thing to attain great knowledge but it is as nothing without wisdom" Anon

Don't try to understand his posts. He doesn't know anymore about the watch than the rest of us. He likes to use many words to say next to nothing.

Agreed. Its getting a bit tiresome now.
I stumbled upon a thread on the Tomtom forums that sounded just the same, and one glance at the userid revealed that their forums has been infiltrated too.
Playing Devil's advocate is one thing, but its just trolling now.

After the update IQ apps seem to use more slots than before. Did a factory reset but can't download any apps for the last 24 hours since the store doesn't seem to be accessible, at least not for me.

Yeah, I wish there was a way to ignore users in this forum.

There is, just go to the user's profile and choose "Add to Ignore List".

4.3

4.3 continues to be trash for me for other activities in respect to hr. It was erratic on my bike ride , but not complete crap. Overall, it's a huge step back for activity hr compared to 4.2 which was fantastic...

Based on this thread I have ignored "upgrading" to 4.3, however as with many tech things a master reboot may be needed to really make it right. I noticed one post where they did that and everything seemed to be working correctly, but lost their history. If that is the case, my history is on Garmin Connect, and feel safe doing a master reboot and losing everything.. This is not that unusual, and being in the high tech world in Silicon Valley may put me slightly ahead of the knowledge curve. It makes total sense to me after an upgrade.
So Garmin you did not know this? Really.... You should have published this in the release notes, not knowing you had to do a master reboot is even worse.
It is obvious Garmin is watching this thread/forum. The major disappointment in all of this is the lack of communication and serious release notes. I manage an award winning Silicon Valley High Tech Support organization(Garmin Support Management lookup TSIA.com) and have several frustrations with how this and upgrades are being handled.
Here we go:

• Why not list the bugs that are fixed - I do, so my customers know exactly what was corrected in minute detail. It educates them about the product they are using and what exactly what was fixed. A huge deal with the people on this forum wanting to know details about how the watch does what is does.
  
• New features - exactly what is the new feature - a generic tiny sentence is no use, let's see some serious details.
  
• Support and QA are obviously overwhelmed, IMO - there is a lack of resource planning. I realize support is not generating revenue and no doubt has restricted resources, but out there is a Silicon Valley startup ready to take sales away. Garmin's management seems too short sighted to beef up the organization where it is needed and deliver the information the customer base is requesting. Fitbit is a great example of cutting into Garmin sales big time, and trust me more devices are on their way.
  
• QA/Tech writing is beyond poor. The release notes are horrible. In no way shape or form would I put something so generic. The lack of details tells me they are hiding issues, or consider its customer base ignorant and does not need to know This thread proves otherwise, there are some great posts that show serious insight, and thirst for knowledge about the 235.
  

Sorry to be so harsh, but running a technical support organization(both hardware and software) and deal with customers that don't know the difference between a USB and a network cable, and manage to pull 10 out of 10 in customer surveys, I think I have a clue.
Garmin you are treating your customer base as though we were pathetic know nothings, which based on this thread is not the case.

Time to wake up and deliver what your customer base is requesting, solid product that delivers upgrades that don't break other things and details that layout exactly what was changed in the release notes...

Last running. Something like 'half cadence lock':

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1167726047

4.3 is no good. Before it I had no problems at all.