End of life?

I don't understand what people are saying? Garmin should stand still and not create new products for years after the release of earlier hardware? I find Garmin issues FW updates for years after a product is released - I still get 620 fw updates.

The fw upgrade cycle slows after a few months of release, but this is normal.

Not trying to stir anything up here, but I have to ask. What do those of you looking for more updates expect to be fixed aside from the 72bpm and user selectable sampling rate?

My main issues are:

Calorie and Distance totals
- This one is my biggest gripe. Not because it's that bad of a bug but because it's so obvious and trivial to fix, I cannot for the life of me understand why it hasn't been fixed yet. It's more of an IT problem rather than a watch problem I think. The watch gets the calculations for calories and distance correct but for some reason after uploading to GC, something goes wonky and the totals for both change. Sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot. Sometimes they are bigger than the watch reports, sometimes they are lower. It's simple math and so trivial, it should have been fixed by now. There is a 15 page thread on here about this.

HR sampling
- An incorrect HR sample which is sampled incorrectly is then used for the next 1/2 - 1 hour which can really throw off calorie estimates.
- 72bpm bug. It's been fixed on other platforms, why not the 235 yet?
- Sampling time. The all day HR tracking is quite useless now. Every 30mins it not good enough. Even if you move, it doesn't always start to sample. If you were to take Garmin to court over this feature, you would probably win as every 30 mins does not constitute enough of a sampling time for them to claim 24/7.
- I would also like to see a better cadence lock avoidance algorithm implemented.

The Forerunner 235 is a product that is still being developed and there are software updates that are being actively being worked on. I am not able to provide a specific release date at this time, but updates for the device will be released in the near future.

"A product that is still being developed"??? Is that another way of saying Garmin released the FR235 before it was ready? A Christmas release of a sub-standard product to pad their wallet? Sorry! That doesn't fly with me. Nor does the "update for the device will be released in the near future" that we've been hearing since the middle of January. Garmin set the standard at one time. They have released too many different devices so close together that they are no longer able to keep up with them all. I really had high hopes for the 235, but it's just a matter of time before someone else corners the market with a superior device. I suspect that will happen in 2017. By then, Garmin will have released the FR275 and the Fenix 6.

Are we on the same page with regard to what ‘product development’ means?

"A product that is still being developed"??? Is that another way of saying Garmin released the FR235 before it was ready?

That was my first reaction to the statement too. I expect all development of a product to be completed, and the finished product meets the technical specifications published, upon initial production release in the market. Defect fixes need to be made as defects (and failures to meet technical specifications) are detected after release, but there is no need to introduce any new/additional features to the product as marketed/sold, so the product itself needs no further development. The FR235 is not a platform on which there is to be continual building; it's an appliance. Connect IQ is a platform (and not a standalone product), and I can understand there is ongoing development of Connect IQ apps, but we're not talking about those here.

It's advertised as "activity tracker/running watch"
And you can NOT call yourself an activity tracker unless you allow people to TRACK THEIR ACTIVITY. Not every 'activity' involves step counting.

Well, which aspects of which activities are you expecting to track without telling the watch to track it as a workout (which can then be classified in Garmin Connect afterwards)? Does any activity tracker out there in the market know you're riding a bike, swimming, reading a book, or having a roll in the hay without your telling it?

We've already argued about the calories and distance tracking.The fact is that the FR235 is tracking those metrics for 24x7 non-specific activity. Tracking a metric does not imply testing its value against a set goal and presenting the results of the testing. My FR235 telling me I have taken 14,188 steps (between walking and running) yesterday is tracking my steps, even in the absence of a set or or arbitrary step goal such as 10,000. It also tells me I travelled 12.9km yesterday; that's tracking distance (and didn't just calculate 14,188×0.79m, since my stride length while running is longer). Telling me I slept from 01:55 to 10:14 today is tracking my sleep (and which happens to be reasonably accurate, notwithstanding I was awake for about 15 minutes at 07:30), even in the absence of a sleep goal.

Well, which aspects of which activities are you expecting to track without telling the watch to track it as a workout (which can then be classified in Garmin Connect afterwards)? Does any activity tracker out there in the market know you're riding a bike, swimming, reading a book, or having a roll in the hay without your telling it?

We've already argued about the calories and distance tracking.The fact is that the FR235 is tracking those metrics for 24x7 non-specific activity. Tracking a metric does not imply testing its value against a set goal and presenting the results of the testing. My FR235 telling me I have taken 14,188 steps (between walking and running) yesterday is tracking my steps, even in the absence of a set or or arbitrary step goal such as 10,000. It also tells me I travelled 12.9km yesterday; that's tracking distance (and didn't just calculate 14,188×0.79m, since my stride length while running is longer). Telling me I slept from 01:55 to 10:14 today is tracking my sleep (and which happens to be reasonably accurate, notwithstanding I was awake for about 15 minutes at 07:30), even in the absence of a sleep goal.

Yes Fitbit does track without entering workout mode. It detects you're walking, biking etc.

Back to the topic, Daily calorie/distance goal is the most basic setting in almost every fitness tracker out there. Their absence is just absurd. You may not use it, you may not care about it - but there are people out there who do. Since steps is already there, why not add the calorie/distance, so we can have a nice graph on activity widget.
People can track their calories, know how good they're doing through out the day etc.

Is it so unreasonable to ask for the most basic activity tracker feature on a $350 watch ?

Fitbit do? (Well maybe not the rolling in the hay bit!)

Yes Fitbit does track without entering workout mode. It detects you're walking, biking etc.

OK, that's interesting, and I didn't know that. I bought my girlfriend a Fitbit Charge HR a few months back, so I might have to borrow it and play with it a bit to see what it actually does with the detected activities.

Back to the topic, Daily calorie/distance goal is the most basic setting in almost every fitness tracker out there.

I have doubts about it being “the most basic setting” – compared to other “basic” settings, such as the user's daily step goal as a number – but I'll be happy to agree it's a very common feature of fitness trackers.

Their absence is just absurd. You may not use it, you may not care about it - but there are people out there who do.

Sure, and I'm not arguing for Garmin not or never providing it. My point is simply that being able a set a goal – and, in particular, something other than a step count goal – against which to compare a recorded result defines tracking and/or what a tracker does.

As an analogy, alarms (triggered upon reaching set times of the day) may be a very common feature on watches, but the absence of the feature certainly does not stop a device from being a watch, when the defining characteristics of a watch are simply a portable device (including a pocket watch, so it need not have a strap or be worn around one's wrist) that tells the current time of day. If you want the alarm(s) feature, you ought to be specifically shopping for watches that have the feature, instead of assuming that every watch has that feature and then get all huffy when the one you bought doesn't.

Since steps is already there, why not add the calorie/distance, so we can have a nice graph on activity widget.
People can track their calories, know how good they're doing through out the day etc.

Again, Garmin has provided the Connect IQ platform, and you're welcome to develop (or commission the development of) a widget exactly as you'd like it.

Is it so unreasonable to ask for the most basic activity tracker feature on a $350 watch ?

You can ask for it. I'm merely emphasising that it's not your entitlement to get it, and the manufacturer does not owe it to you. As several fellow forum members have previously suggested to you, if you're not happy with the situation, then return the product and buy something else, irrespective of how much you like the other features that are on the FR235, and/or whether there is something else currently available in the market that ticks all the boxes for you. It's not a question of how you as a consumer can get satisfaction, but what you can do procedurally (however limited the options may be) if you're not satisfied.

You can ask for it. I'm merely emphasising that it's not your entitlement to get it, and the manufacturer does not owe it to you.

Well thank you for pointing the obvious. Where have I ever said that Garmin owes me to implement all the features 'I WANT' ? This is a product forum to talk about features/wants/needs/hopes etc. I am on the right section of the forum, but are you ?

Well thank you for pointing the obvious. Where have I ever said that Garmin owes me to implement all the features 'I WANT' ?

Your posts (I've seen many) seem to want calorie and distance goals. In my years here your posts are the first time I've seen that being requested. When I used fitbits, withings, misfit, polar and other trackers, NONE of them had that feature. Sees you keep saying Garmin OWES you that feature for a $350 watch! :/


And as far as "auto activity detection" see "moveIQ" that's been announced by Garmin.