Buyer beware: FR 235

Personally, I think the OP has some valid points albeit expressed in fairly strong terms. I can say this rationally now that I've got over the bitter disappointment of the 235 and have exchanged it for a 230 with a Scosche Ryhthm + OHRM. To be honest, I wish I hadn't sold my Forerunner 220 in the first place ...

Why do I agree with the OP? A list of faults with the 235 which represented a step backwards from both the 220 and the earlier 405: -

(1) OHRM. Plenty of coverage on the problems with the HRM but it seems to be the case that the 235's doesn't work as well as either TomTom's latest offerings or indeed, the 225. For someone like me (who hadn't read up on OHRM technology before buying the watch), I expected the 235 to read my heart rate when I was running. I really didn't think that was too much but in the 3 or 4 weeks that I had it, I didn't have one run which didn't have cadence lock or frozen HRM issues. By contrast, the Scosche is an absolute dream.

(2) Backlight. Awful, just awful. Looks like a 1980's casio and is a huge step back from my old 405. I can only guess that this was a battery life issue.

(3) Audible alerts. Try doing an interval session using just the audible alerts. Pretty near impossible because they are so quiet.

(4) Smart phone integration. Nice feature but again, if you can't hear it then it isn't much use.

(5) Battery life. Again, covered in much detail elsewhere but doesn't get anywhere close to Garmin's figures.

I happen to think that the 235 is going to be a great watch when they iron some of the (fairly serious) issues out but until then, I'm afraid they have simply released an expensive watch to us poor souls for beta testing.

And by the way, try to keep the vitriol out of the posts. You might love your 235 but even the most hardened of Garmin fans have to acknowledge that it is pretty far from being a finished article.

For 3 and 4 - Is there a reason you have just audible and not audible and vibration? I turned on the do not disturb because the notifications were starting to annoy me. I haven't used the alerts during running yet, but I can hear and feel the split notifications. I could even feel the vibrations through 2 layers of clothes the one time I wore the watch over my jacket (paired to a strap) because I wussed out when it was cold.
I was thinking off going for the 230 with the Scosche unit too if I can get Garmin to take back the 235. I'm glad to hear that its a good combo. I have a Mio and I only wish it would transmit over longer distance. I used to wear it right next to my watch and it wasn't always comfortable. I really want to love this watch, and while I can see that 2,3,4 and 5 might be an issue for some, I don't really have a problem with them. I just wanted reliable HR readings during steady paced runs and pace alerts during custom workouts. If I get that I'll become the no. 1 Garmin fanboy.

Personally, I think the OP has some valid points albeit expressed in fairly strong terms. I can say this rationally now that I've got over the bitter disappointment of the 235 and have exchanged it for a 230 with a Scosche Ryhthm + OHRM. To be honest, I wish I hadn't sold my Forerunner 220 in the first place ...

I think the problem was that the OP was making VERY strong statements about the 235 in general rather than just their experience with it. I'm pretty confident that "junk" and "useless" is not how the vast majority of 235 owners would describe their watch (from the posts on this forum and e.g. looking at Amazon, where it has a 3.8/5 rating), despite its problems.

FWIIW i've owned a 210, 220, 225 and now 235. I've seen the evolution in these devices and it's impressive.

(1) OHRM. Plenty of coverage on the problems with the HRM but it seems to be the case that the 235's doesn't work as well as either TomTom's latest offerings or indeed, the 225. For someone like me (who hadn't read up on OHRM technology before buying the watch), I expected the 235 to read my heart rate when I was running. I really didn't think that was too much but in the 3 or 4 weeks that I had it, I didn't have one run which didn't have cadence lock or frozen HRM issues. By contrast, the Scosche is an absolute dream.

Aside from the cadence lock issue my 235 has worked really well for runs. In the past i've used straps, a Mio Link, the 225 and now the 235, so i have a pretty good baseline of experience.

But i also agree that Garmin has yet to refine their HRM technology to the point where it brings a consistent experience to everyone. And for many it's just bad! They need to get their act together and fast. For me it's in the "good enough" category (much better than my experience with a strap) and i expect it will get better.

(2) Backlight. Awful, just awful. Looks like a 1980's casio and is a huge step back from my old 405. I can only guess that this was a battery life issue.

Yep agree the backlight could be a LOT better and i hated it to begin with. But this watch is trying to do a lot and i also want my battery life. So i've gotten used to it. White-on-black helps here a lot actually and doesn't look nearly as bad in the dark.

(3) Audible alerts. Try doing an interval session using just the audible alerts. Pretty near impossible because they are so quiet.

Agreed, they should be louder like the 220. The 225 was actually much worse and one of the reasons why i returned it (hard to hear even in a quiet room!). That said, i connect to my iPhone and have it mark the intervals for me that way, so i'm OK. But not everyone can or will want to do this.

(4) Smart phone integration. Nice feature but again, if you can't hear it then it isn't much use.

I don't want my wrist beeping in meetings at work so i stick with vibrations only here. Slightly better for battery life as well. Agreed that if you were relying on sound alone you'd be pretty disappointed.

(5) Battery life. Again, covered in much detail elsewhere but doesn't get anywhere close to Garmin's figures.

The battery life is now pretty close to Garmin's figures for most people, although it takes a few charge cycles to get there. See my thread here: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?334805-235-battery-life-post-your-experience.

For example, right now i'm on 33% at day 6 including 3hrs GPS + 1/2hr non-GPS activity. My drain is roughly 6-9% per day as a watch and 7-10% per hour for GPS activities, depending on what i have turned on/off (always have the HRM on, though). This is close to the claimed battery life.

I happen to think that the 235 is going to be a great watch when they iron some of the (fairly serious) issues out but until then, I'm afraid they have simply released an expensive watch to us poor souls for beta testing.

Garmin seem to have a pattern of doing this and it's frustrating. That said, they usually to get their act together (for most bugs/features) within a few months, and as users we always seem to want the very latest technology sooner rather than later.

And by the way, try to keep the vitriol out of the posts. You might love your 235 but even the most hardened of Garmin fans have to acknowledge that it is pretty far from being a finished article.

People responded because the OP was over the top right from the beginning and they disagreed. We should all post our own experiences and let the weight of those speak for the watch as a whole. Claiming that the 235 is "junk" and "useless" is both not accurate and not helpful. Although an individual can get a dud watch that is totally crap, and they should certainly post about that (and then return it!).

And just to add, if you go to the Fitbit forums, UP3 forums, and so on, they're all full of people airing their issues, complaining about bugs, highlighting confusing behaviour, different expectations, etc. It's where you do it. On this forum i see people compare their 24/7 HR curves to the Charge HR (which many seem to have, including me) and ask why is Garmin so bad compared to their Fitbit. Yet Charge HR users just sued Fitbit because of the supposed bad 24/7 HR tracking quality! I'm not saying who's right or wrong, i'm just saying :).

What all such devices are trying to do is both pretty amazing and pretty tough, especially given how diverse the human population is. Of course we need to rage about badly implemented features, broken promises, faulty hardware/software, etc. But we should also not get too over zealous about what's on our wrists and what it can do for us. And claiming that every 235 is junk just because theirs is is only going to annoy those who actually really like their watch.

If I got those results I'd be unsure as to whether or not I'd experienced cadence lock. The heart rate and cadence seem to track each other for large parts of those runs, but that may be coincidence.

There are a few places when the cadence locked for a minute or two, but outside of this, when the HR and cadence was similar i'm pretty sure the HR was still tracking correctly (from knowing my perceived effort, and from what i know about running these routes many times before).

I agree though, cadence lock is an issue. Apparently Garmin is working on this. It needs to be fixed.

Interesting though that now i've become much more aware of the problem i see it at times with my Mio as well, and in my historical data. Never noticed it before! I was happy then; can i be happy now?!? :)

And claiming that every 235 is junk just because theirs is is only going to annoy those who actually really like their watch.

And claiming its best thing since sliced bread to someone who thinks their's is junk isn't going to annoy them? To be fair it's a bit of a perfect storm. User A logs on frustrated with what they see as pretty poor performance from an expensive piece of kit, and perhaps overdoes it bit with of the auld venting, expecting support. User B who has no such issues and thinks User A is maybe being a bit OTT, then calls out and disagrees with User A, which only serves to make User A more annoyed and frustrated and vent more, in turn raising the ire of User B even more, and so on and so forth. And so it has been since the days of the very first internet discussion board.
Meanwhile there's a guy very high up in Garmin Towers rolling around in a big pile of cash laughing like a Bond villian.

And claiming its best thing since sliced bread to someone who thinks their's is junk isn't going to annoy them?

Yep, agreed! I've been on the other side of the fence and boy it makes you crazy.

Meanwhile there's a guy very high up in Garmin Towers rolling around in a big pile of cash laughing like a Bond villian.

Made me laugh :). To be fair, when i've had a problem with Garmin they've always been really good about helping and replacing a defective device without making me jump through hoops. Note this is Garmin USA. Garmin Australia (where i live) customer support sucks big time and i refuse to deal with them now unless i absolutely have to.

There are a few places when the cadence locked for a minute or two, but outside of this, when the HR and cadence was similar i'm pretty sure the HR was still tracking correctly (from knowing my perceived effort, and from what i know about running these routes many times before).

I agree though, cadence lock is an issue. Apparently Garmin is working on this. It needs to be fixed.

Interesting though that now i've become much more aware of the problem i see it at times with my Mio as well, and in my historical data. Never noticed it before! I was happy then; can i be happy now?!? :)

I've been meaning to look over some of my old Mio data to see if there's a similarity, but my previous watch didn't measure cadence. I'm not being critical, I just thought 175bpm was pretty high for easy pace in anyones money. I've said it before, I really want to like this watch, but I've had problems with it from day one. They are slowly being fixed (the pace issue for starters, which is now resolved satisfactorily) - but a bit of feedback from Garmin wouldn't go amiss. You guys in the US seem to get better customer support and feedback from Garmin than us here in Europe. If you want some positives, I love how light the watch is, I love the wrist turn light thingy, I love Connect IQ and I can't wait to dig deeper into it. I love how text messages come up on the watch (not sure if its safe to check when driving, but checking your phone here is big nono and will get you in trouble with the police). I love the activity and sleep tracking. I think the display is bright enough and that the audio display and vibration alerts are fine.
This watch cost almost as much as a PS4, I think people are entitled to be annoyed when advertised features don't work (I'm looking at you custom workout pace alerts.)

but a bit of feedback from Garmin wouldn't go amiss. You guys in the US seem to get better customer support and feedback from Garmin than us here in Europe.

That's the key I think. I'm in Australia and local support is ill-equipped to really 'support'.

My absolute biggest frustration and the reason I've been so critical of them is because we don't know what issues Garmin does or does not know about and whether key issues are actively being worked on or not. This 'silence' from Garmin leaves me feeling anxious about the future of this watch/platform.

If they just had 1 person from the fitness team actively participating here on the 235 forum (like they have on the fenix), that would go a long way to giving me some confidence that this watch will improve. But for now I'm in two minds as to whether I should continue the 'gamble' or just give up on it now and get my money back while I still can.

> My absolute biggest frustration and the reason I've been so critical of them is because we don't know what issues Garmin does or does not know about and whether key issues are actively being worked on or not.

Fairly sure they will know about all the major issues. If I think they may not, I try and let them know if I see things myself and/or here.

For instance
https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?339051-24x7-HR-Recording-What-do-you-actually-want
is something they have noted for consideration.
It's not "easy" though and you can see from the responses that not everybody wants the same thing or even cares about it.

Still very hopeful on mine that I have only had for a few days now. 2 runs, 3 very shortly but in the first 2 I seemed to lock onto cadence after 1 mile yesterday. Tightened the strap an extra notch and 2-3 minutes later HR fell back to where it should be. There are definitely some software 'things' that aren't right (have my backlight time at 15 and sure seems more like 8) and Bluetooth has seemed a bit odd (jammed up yesterday after an update). Hopefully they'll fix all that and NOT break other things on the way (like they did on one of the 225 releases).

I started Garmin from iPhone and Endomondo 2 summers ago with a 310xt and the strap. Other than waiting on signal, being HUGE, and something I only wore to run it worked well. The chest strap, for me, was finicky as heck and also would often be doing cadence for a while especially when cold, yes I'd wet it and stuff. So for me when people talk about the strap being the fall back thing that works my experience is that they suck too. Switched to a Scosche optical and it was great, for me definitely better than the strap. Jumped all over he Fenix 3 when it was released and was so mad with the horrendous accuracy that I returned inside my 90 window. Got a 220, only had it for a week and it worked great but was very basic, loved the small size, especially after the Fenix which is a tank. Garmin announced the 225 and I promptly returned the 220 and waited for that. It had some initial software things but being a modified 220 it was pretty good all along. Waited until now to sell the 225 and get the 235. I was hoping they would be a little further in the 'fixing' process but I like the thinner profile as my all the time watch, 4th data screen, smart notifications, and constant HR monitoring (though seems like that needs a bit of work). As long as Garmin gets these things fixed I won't be too mad but if they 'move on' to another model within about 2 years I will probably come unglued. If they even go to a 1 year cycle to me they better come out PERFECT. I also think they need their software guys monitoring these forums to see things people repeat and look into them and do more with releasing beta software with fixes so they don't jam up everyone's watch like they did with one of the 225 updates.

All that rambling to say I am basically happy right now (while accepting that it seems Garmin likes to release units with poor software and fix on the fly). Just need to quickly fix the software issues. At least it isn't like the Fenix 3 where I'm questioning the accuracy of the GPS watch. This one clicks off the miles on the 2 runs right about where it should.