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"Riding On xxx" and "Streetname Ahead" behaviour and suggestions.

Some anomalies in the "Riding On xxx" and "Streetname Ahead" messages.
Recording a ride, without navigating.

Typical behaviour seems to be that when you turn onto a street, you get an initial "Riding on Rose Rd" message, which is then replaced by a "Flying Club Road Ahead" message.
This makes sense in general. However, even if the cross street is several km ahead, almost immediately after turning onto a street, the riding on message is replaced with the cross street name. There is no point telling me about a cross street that's 20 mins away.

Improvement 1) The "streename ahead" message should only appear a pre-defined distance or travel time before the cross street. 1km, 500m, 5 mins etc.

The "streename ahead" is not always the next street ahead. Last night, I found that the ahead street skipped over a major cross road and told me about the street at the end of the road. Not the main cross street in between. The cross street that was skipped is commonly "suggested" as a cycling route, so it's not being excluded as inappropriate for riding on. This morning in another location, the same thing occurred displaying the first left hand street, but skipping an earlier right hand street.

Improvement 2) The "streetname ahead" message should not skip over major rideable side streets. (But it would be fine to ignore minor residential streets)

This morning - at one point in my route, the Explore gave up on the "streetname ahead" messaging, and only displayed "riding on" messages for about 6km, changing streetname as I turned, but ignoring a number of cross streets along the way. Then it reverted back to "streetname ahead", but displayed the streetname that was at the end of the current street, and not any of the cross streets in between. I was driving (not cycling) at speeds of about 60kmh at the time. (The last time I did the same route, it displayed "streetname ahead" messages all the way along - but that may have been on the earlier firmware version)

Improvement 3) Be consistent.

I'll add more observations as I find them.
  • This observation - I call it an issue - is already mentioned in the collected future feature requests list (item K) https://forums.garmin.com/forum/into...ature-requests
    Your analysis is more detailed and surely worth being documented here.
    So: +1
  • The behaviour has improved from the original firmware and old maps to the latest. Still work to do though.
    I need to do more experimenting, but I am starting to understand what is happening.
    Understanding Open Street map classifications helps, as the behaviour is different on different road types.

    Riding on Residential Roads, I get notifications of next residential road ahead. However it doesn't tell me of any Secondary Roads I might cross before I get there. (Poor logic)
    On residential roads - the "Streename Ahead" alert appears almost immediately. Reasonable Logic in a neighbourhood where roads are close together, but the "residential roads" classification include rural roads where the next intersection may be >10km away. "Streetname Ahead" needs a distance or time ahead criteria applied.

    Riding on Secondary Roads, I get "Riding On" messages most of the time, and upcoming residential side streets are ignored (makes sense - with the old firmware named every side street on the way by - which was distracting) However, upcoming secondary side streets are also ignored which seems wrong. Sometimes a Tertiary road is mentioned, sometimes overlooked. A "Streename Ahead" message does seem to appear when you get within x km of the END of the secondary road - describing the intersecting road - but again overlooking secondary roads in between.

    My logic would be (for road cycling)
    On a secondary road, tell me about upcoming primary, secondary and tertiary roads - ignore residential roads.
    On tertiary, tell me about secondary, tertiary and residential.
    On Residential - tell me about secondary, tertiary and residential as well.

    Of course - if the Routing Logic is set to Automobile Driving, then the desired behaviour might be different. I have not tried changing Routing yet to see if the notifications when riding without navigating change.

    I'll keep experimenting.
  • Good to see more details about this issue. Thanks for keeping experimenting!

    I'm just curious however - definitely not critical - what you consider as the benefits of being informed about the names of the roads that are ahead?
    When I am navigating the name of the next road ahead that I am supposed to follow or road element like a roundabout is presented by the Course Guidance function and in the situation when I have chosen to NOT display the Course Guidance text on top of the screen the name of the current road under the GPS-cursor can be displayed. Most Garmin devices behave like this.
    When I am not navigating, either just taking breadcrumbs to record the ride, or following a Course without navigation (with just the blackbordered purple course line visible on the map), then I want to see the current road name and I see really no benefit at all in which roads are ahead. I will get their name when i'm there and that is useful and verifyable with roadname signs you see along the road, etc. Good for orientation and trust during the ride that you know where you are.

    The logic of the "Road Ahead" messaging appears to be so subtile depending on the road types you are riding on and that are ahead that interpretation during a ride is much too complicated and therefore in my opinion useless, in contrary disturbing.
  • Good to see more details about this issue. Thanks for keeping experimenting!

    I'm just curious however - definitely not critical - what you consider as the benefits of being informed about the names of the roads that are ahead?
    When I am navigating the name of the next road ahead that I am supposed to follow or road element like a roundabout is presented by the Course Guidance function and in the situation when I have chosen to NOT display the Course Guidance text on top of the screen the name of the current road under the GPS-cursor can be displayed. Most Garmin devices behave like this.
    When I am not navigating, either just taking breadcrumbs to record the ride, or following a Course without navigation (with just the blackbordered purple course line visible on the map), then I want to see the current road name and I see really no benefit at all in which roads are ahead. I will get their name when i'm there and that is useful and verifyable with roadname signs you see along the road, etc. Good for orientation and trust during the ride that you know where you are.

    The logic of the "Road Ahead" messaging appears to be so subtile depending on the road types you are riding on and that are ahead that interpretation during a ride is much too complicated and therefore in my opinion useless, in contrary disturbing.


    I explore as I ride. Most times I start at and return to the same point. I rarely navigate or build a course in advance. I set out with a general idea of where I am going and what the major roads are, but not every side street. I don't build a course and follow it, but plan to ride west until some road, then north to another road, then back east etc. tracking my ride with breadcrumbs. I like being notified of the upcoming cross street name in advance so I know before I get to it, rather than checking street signs at each intersection (many of which don't have signs). Especially if riding hard or hilly routes where I'm past the intersection before I can read the sign.

    But if there is no intersection ahead for several kilometers - telling me the name of the next one is premature. Better to tell me the road name I am on, or nothing until I get close.

    If the Garmin used a reasonable distance or time ahead criteria (500m-1km, or better still, 2-3 mins at current speed) then "streename ahead" notifications are exactly what I want to see..
  • Rel 3, 2018.10 Maps.

    So here's the most bizarre results seen to date. (Scary thing is I understand the logic of it )

    When riding on a Secondary Road, the Garmin displays "riding on streename" messages.
    HOWEVER
    If the secondary road I am on transitions to a residential or tertiary road in the distance, then the Garmin instead displays the "streetname ahead", listing the first cross street after the transiton to a residential street.

    See example attached.
    I'm riding at the X, and the Garmin is displaying "Pinnacle Street Ahead", ignoring everything in between. This is sooo wrong!!
  • The other "flawed" logic is that the Garmin ignores intersecting roads of certain classes
    For instance, riding on a residential road that crosses a secondary road, the Garmin states "streename ahead" but lists the next residential road, ignoring the secondary road in between.

    Given that most roads in my area ARE secondary roads, this makes it hard to navigate.

    (Clarification - on the Garmin screen - the name of the cross road is visible on the MAP but the "streetname ahead" notification ignores it.)
  • Improvement 2) The "streetname ahead" message should not skip over major rideable side streets. (But it would be fine to ignore minor residential streets)


    ???

    The device won't be able to read your mind.

    What defines a "major ridable street"?

    What defines a "minor residential street" (one that isn't a "major ridable street")?



    There isn't an objective/universal understanding of what these things might mean.

    The map databases don't reliably include this ambiguous information.


    The cross street should, I suppose, be any named street. (Even that isn't going to be perfect but it's a simple rule at least.)
  • I'm just curious however - definitely not critical - what you consider as the benefits of being informed about the names of the roads that are ahead?


    If you are following a course, it isn't necessary.

    I've used it to assist with using paper cuesheets.

    It's a way of providing street names in a standard way. One that is "always" the same (unlike street signs).
  • ???

    The device won't be able to read your mind.

    What defines a "major ridable street"?

    What defines a "minor residential street" (one that isn't a "major ridable street")?



    There isn't an objective/universal understanding of what these things might mean.

    The map databases don't reliably include this ambiguous information.


    The cross street should, I suppose, be any named street. (Even that isn't going to be perfect but it's a simple rule at least.)


    Dpawlyk

    Suggest you look at the examples provided above with snapshots from OSM for context.

    My suggestions are based on OSM VALUES for types of roads under the HIGHWAY key
    Service
    Residential
    Tertiary
    Secondary
    Primary
    Trunk
    Motorway

    Other than Motorways which would universally be considered unsuitable for cycling, and possibly Trunks / Primary (Depending on Avoidance Setup settings on the device - e.g. Avoid Major Highways) then any of the HIGHWAY:VALUEs above would be considered rideable streets.

    There is no reason the Garmin should be "skipping over" or "excluding" residential, tertiary or secondary highways when providing "streetname ahead" notifications. (3 Posts above this one)