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problem with turn by turn in courses

i started a course ride with you 520 but turn by turn not working. Mid ride I restarted the course but TBT wouldn't catch up to current directions. My old 500 does this routinely. File was tcx export from RWGPS btw

0 aweatherall over 9 years ago

May be with 2 reports it will get addressed quicker.

0 Former Member over 9 years ago

I have found what is causing the problem and I have a workaround for you.

The issue is with the data that is being generated by RWGPS and how the Edge is using it.

To determine if you are on or off course the Edge builds a bounding box around the track points that it considers to be part of the course that you are following.

In selecting what track points to use it looks at the total time specified in the course file for completing the course. Using that time it goes through the list of track points and selects all the track points that fall within that time window.

Here is the problem. The time for completing the course specified by RWGPS is much shorter than the time taken using the timestamps that are on each track point. The bigger the difference the fewer the number of track points that are included in the bounding box calculation.

As an example I looked at the values in the file I was using and found that the time delta between the first and last track point was 18,370 seconds, while the time reported for completion of the course was 2,198 seconds. As you can see unless my course was confined to a very small area I would only be able to pick it up near the start.

I'm betting if you look at the tcx file that you downloaded from RWGPS you will see a similar thing.

Here is how to fix it.

Using an editor (I like using the firstobject xml editor) open up the tcx file.

Go to the first track point in the file and get the value for "Time". Do the same for the last track point. Then workout the difference between these 2 times in seconds and take that value and use it replace the value that is currently associated with the tag TotalTimeSeconds under lap near the top of the file.

Save the changes and place the file in the Garmin\NewFiles folder.

Thanks Alan for looking into this. I appreciate all your effort. I wish Garmin would just make their course creator better this way it is their hardware, their software and there should be no issues like this. It is crazy that we have to go through all this.

Garmin course creator should be able to:

1) Put in turn cues in tcx format (With advance turn notice. I know Bike route toaster can do this, but what if they decide to stop supporting the site?)
2)Show the total elevation when making a course
3)Add turn cues in tcx format when exporting an activity (for virtual partner purposes). Otherwise, we have to stare at the map screen when trying to race against an activity.
4) Incorporate Strava segments into courses (Strava course builder has been in "Beta" for forever, maybe strava is working on this? they would also need to add tcx turn cues)

0 Former Member over 9 years ago

So today I did a ride with Bike Route Toaster with turn cues and advance turn cue's at 150 ft before course point, exported to the edge 520 in TCX form. The results were not good. For some intersections it did not give me the early turn cue, and random turn cues popped up when there wasn't even a turn!

- We have this bug with RWGPS files where you HAVE to start from the beginning of the course or you will get no turn cues (this makes it impossible to stop your course and do the strava live segments, then restart the course).

- Bike route toaster was just making up turns wherever it felt like it

- Strava route creator, no course points

- Garmin connect no turn "course points". The turn by turn navigation based on angles is completely useless.

My goal is to be able to look at the data page and get a notice when the turn is coming. Why must Garmin make this so hard? Following a course is a CORE function of a bike GPS computer, and I have no luck with my edge 810 (constant freezes, was replaced with another one with constant freezes), and now on the 520 still frustrated.....

0 666_Lange over 9 years ago

- We have this bug with RWGPS files where you HAVE to start from the beginning of the course or you will get no turn cues.

Is this something newly introduced after an update on the RWGPS site because on my 810 this works fine. I can stop the course are re-load it and once it finds the course, it will determine the position on the course and the cue points are then skipped through until the correct position and start working from there.
The only problem i ever encountered with cue points was that they popped up +/- 100m before actually riding over them. The first part of the course was good but then all of a sudden the pop-ups where +/- 100m to early. Happened only once.

Must say that since the 810's 3.6x firmware, TBT works quite good so i stopped using TCX files with cue points. The only drawback is not having TBT on some intersections where you would expect them and have them where you don't.

Following a course is a CORE function of a bike GPS computer

Totally agree but for most people this seems less and less important. They focus a lot more on the other bells and whistles.

0 TLGPA over 9 years ago

So today I did a ride with Bike Route Toaster with turn cues and advance turn cue's at 150 ft before course point, exported to the edge 520 in TCX form. The results were not good. For some intersections it did not give me the early turn cue, and random turn cues popped up when there wasn't even a turn!

Try this. Create your route in RWGPS. Then import the TCX into BRT. Then export the TCX with advanced cues.
I've done that with success and didn't get wrong cues.
I haven't tried restarting in the middle of a ride though.

0 TLGPA over 9 years ago

Is this something newly introduced after an update on the RWGPS site because on my 810 this works fine. I can stop the course are re-load it and once it finds the course, it will determine the position on the course and the cue points are then skipped through until the correct position and start working from there.

It also works fine with the 500. Sounds more like a bug with the 520.

0 aweatherall over 9 years ago

The issue has always been there on RWGPS it is just that the 520 computes the course boundary differently to earlier units so you do not see this on those models.
RWGPS have said that they are fixing it and I have reported it to Garmin as well.

0 Former Member over 9 years ago

Purple Lines Issue

I am having this same issue, and it appears the turn guidance is working off of where these purple lines connect to my route. Did anyone ever develop an understanding or fix for this issue?

Though.... what were the purple lines on the map, not on course, just off at an angle? I thought they were related to the route I was following, and they disappeared when I turned off the route, but they seemed random.[/I]

Some help with this would be really great!

0 Former Member over 9 years ago

The purple lines are generated by the Turn Guidance software and as far as I can tell Turn Guidance doesn't work on the 520. I haven't tried using it much but it hasn't worked at all when I did try.

There is another way to get turn prompts and that is using course points. Course points are added by route planning software. RideWithGPS and Bike Route Toaster both add them when you output a TCX file. A box is displayed at the bottom of the screen when you reach a course point. It contains a short text message and turn direction icon that was generated by the route planning software. The data field "Course Pt Dist" can be added to any screen and shows the distance to the next course point along with the turn direction icon.

I recommend using course points, disabling Turn Guidance in Course Options and selecting cancel when asked "Navigate to the beginning of the course" after selecting a course to ride.

RideWithGPS puts the course points right at the turn unless you have a premium membership. BikeRouteToaster will put the course points prior to the turn. With the course points right at the turn there is no advance notice of the turn but I find monitoring the Course Pt Data field works well and I don't rely on the notice box being displayed.

0 Former Member over 9 years ago

617

I'm following the instructions to not use the Garmin turn features and use course points instead, which is working great. Ride With GPS is easy to set up and use. Frustrated the Garmin features don't work, which is why DC Rainmaker is always ragging on them for releasing incomplete products. Thank you!