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Edge 520 Grievances

Former Member
Former Member
I have been a 510 user for about 20,000 km. I have been using the 520 for about 2,000 km: all on the 2.60 firmware (for Taiwan I believe). What follows is a series of bug reports, UX grievances, questions, and suggestions for improvements, that have occurred to me in this short time. I don't expect a response from Garmin, but maybe, just maybe, they will see this and heed some of it. The list is not exhaustive and is in no particular order. I understand that some issues may be due to my own misunderstanding, and I will be gladly corrected. I don't really address larger functional issues here such as segment matching tolerance, live tracking dropouts, Connect syncing, poor screen visibility, etc. which could each have their own entire post.

I like many things about the 510 and so far the 520. The GPS stability and accuracy is truly outstanding, in all weather conditions. And, for me at least, the ANT+ stability is near perfect, with very few problems in over 30,000 km. But...the UI and UX flaws tarnish what should easily be a best-in-class experience. Hopefully the following will help to improve the situation.

* the buttons on the side are too hard to press. Given their position, and the years-old design of the Garmin "1/4 turn" mount, I frequently accidentally turn the device in the mount, while trying to press a button, if I don't get my hand position just right. These buttons should be super-light-touch activated; I would have thought capacitive buttons might work well here. Or the arrow buttons should be on the top of the device which then won't then turn the device.

* the annoyance of the hard to press buttons is greatly intensified by the overall "inefficiency of navigation" of the entire UI: simply put, many things require far too many button presses to accomplish. Configuration is painful, but bearable, given that usually it is done off the bike (although how nice would it be to do it on a smart-phone). But "click efficiency" while on the bike is critical, and poorly done. Specific examples will follow.

* why was the behaviour of the back-light button changed compared to the 510? It used to toggle between off/user-configured/full. Now it doesn't toggle anything, but only enters "change the level mode". In other words, functionality was removed from the button, without adding anything else.

* why is a dedicated back-light button even needed? On the 510 I only ever changed the light level very rarely. It seems wasteful to have a button dedicated to that purpose. Suggestion: put the power button on the long press action of the enter button; make the back-light level just another menu item; and you have a free button. Why not make it customisable? There are plenty of potential uses for it.

* the back-light should have an option to change modes when changing from moving to stationary. e.g. I usually ride with the back-light always on, but when I stop at a shop for long periods of time (or even at a red light), the back-light is only wasting battery; I must manually turn it off if I want to maximise battery life. Further, to give an example of click efficiency, to turn off the light from 50% now takes 7 button presses! On the 510 it took on average 2.

* why are the ride auto-pause and auto-unpause and "movement detected" messages modal? There is simply no need. Frequently in the middle of executing a sequence of button presses a message will pop up, effectively "stealing" one of the presses and interrupting the sequence. Further, why don't the arrow buttons dismiss these modal dialogs?

* when "Start Notice" is enabled, and you stop the ride while still rolling to a stop, you immediately get a "movement detected" modal dialog, again stealing the button press you were about to make to save the ride. A few seconds delay is all that's needed here to improve the UX.

* why doesn't the back button choose the "Cancel" option in dialogs. This is standard behaviour in almost all other OSes, usually bound to the escape key. It should never do nothing.

* the current method of identifying which page you are on, i.e. the "tab bar" on the left side of the screen, is not very useful because it disappears. Thus you can only know what page you are on _after_ you push an arrow button. And therefore you don't know how many button presses are required to get to the page you want. Here's am idea: drop the tab bar, and put the page number permanently in the top right corner (in place of the rather unnecessary "context menu" icon). Then you will easily know how many button presses to get to the page you want and can do it without looking.

* the data page transition animations are not helpful. They "jank" (i.e. drop frames) all the time (CPU isn't up to it I suppose) and waste time when I could be looking at data. Drop the transitions, and use the afore-mentioned page number to recognise the page change.

* transitions can also be disorientating when a data field remains in the same position on the next page: it's there, then it slides up, then it's there again. Here's one idea based on my use case: I often have two adjacent pages with the same layout and all the same fields except for one or two. If instead of a transition, just the fields that changed between pages were "flashed", it would be very obvious what happened, e.g. average power switched to lap power.

* more on data page transitions, I often experience "hangs" while riding, i.e. button presses do nothing and sometimes the data stops updating. Sometimes waiting 10 seconds will restore functionality and the button works; sometimes it doesn't, and only "escaping" back to the home page and re-entering the data pages makes it work.

* why is that the 520 has both a physically larger screen, and a higher PPI than the 510, and yet the biggest numbers I can realistically display
on the 520 are _smaller_ than on the 510. This is possibly the most important function of the device: to show numbers in a manner useful to the user. As a racer, I want to see speed and power in big, bold numbers, such that I can see them when I'm bent over the handlebars with sweat pouring into my eyes; but I still want to have HR, Cadence, and others on the same page. The 510 supported a 6 field layout which had 2 big numbers at the top, and 4 small numbers at the bottom. With the 520, the 5, 6, 7, and 8 field layouts all have small numbers only. The only way to get numbers as big as the 510 is to go down to 4 fields, which simply isn't enough.

* there really needs to be more thought put into the way field names and units are displayed, to better utilise the screen real estate, and improve the UX:
** I almost never need to see units displayed on the fields. I happen to know that my speed field is being shown in km/h and my heart rate in beats per minute. If screen real estate wasn't at a premium, it wouldn't matter so much, but it is.
** field layouts with 1, 2, 3, and 4 data fields all have the same size numbers. Why? What's the point of going from 3 to 2 if the numbers don't increase in size. There is too much white space.
** when units are displayed next to the numbers, the two combined are centred in the display port. This means the numbers are off-centre by varying amounts. That is simply wrong. Again, de-emphasize, or remove, the units, and make the numbers front and centre.
** field names are placed _on top_ of the numbers! They are also considerable bigger than on the 510. Looking at my 520 in front of me, there is at least 40% white space on the screen, due to the fact that the field display port is much wider than it is high. What a waste. Again, there is limited screen real estate to show as much effective information as possible. The current implementation could be greatly improved.
** here is one solution: stop displaying units, and move the field names (abbreviated) to be right-justified and vertical; centre all the numbers in their display ports; and add more page layout options, e.g. two side by side fields, in the top third of the screen
** field naming is inconsistent, e.g.:
*** "Pwr. Last Lap" vs "Last Lap Spd." vs "HR - Last lap"
*** "Pwr. 3s" vs. "Lap Pwr."
*** "Current Lap": no mention of time, and no units displayed
** if the units potentially change on a given field, e.g. from m to km, just use decimals! There is no need to say 450 m when .450 will suffice.

* the new lap information page: why can you only see one field in the lap list? I want to see speed and power. Not enough room? Maybe make it two lines per entry? Or leave off the units. Again, I know my average speed is in units of km/h and my average power is in Watts.

* there is a bug in the lap information page which makes it unusable - it takes a long time to show the list of laps, and the time is directly proportional to the number of laps (I have mine showing power, if that is relevant). This obviously should be cached and very quick to display, but it raises a bigger issue regarding event loops. Every page should have an early exit available in its event loop so that a second button press will immediately terminate any work being done for that page and move onto the next page. As it stands with this bug, I might have to wait 10s or more, before I can change the page again.

...to be continued...
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    Ideas

    Thanks - I submitted my idea of being able to set an option "cancel cadence alerts when coasting downhill" where the 520 knows I'm descending and the alert I set for climbing and riding on flat ground is annoying on big descents
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    Receipt from Garmin Ideas

    Thanks - I submitted my idea of being able to set an option "cancel cadence alerts when coasting downhill" where the 520 knows I'm descending and the alert I set for climbing and riding on flat ground is annoying on big descents


    Here's the receipt message. This sentence seems to be Garmin Support's mantra

    "As happy as we are to hear from you, it's unlikely that you will hear back from us"

    ____________________________________________________________________________
    Thank you for submitting your idea to Garmin!

    Whether it was feedback about how to make a current feature better or an idea for a brand new product, we're excited you took the time to share with us.

    As happy as we are to hear from you, it's unlikely that you will hear back from us. If you have any questions about how the idea submission process works, please refer back to the Terms of Use agreement.

    Best regards,
    Garmin
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    I input a suggestion last year and although I didn't get any response the suggestion was implemented. I can't say for sure but I think there is good chance it was because of my input. It was something that wasn't discussed on the forum. I think they do read the suggestions.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    Ideas

    I input a suggestion last year and although I didn't get any response the suggestion was implemented. I can't say for sure but I think there is good chance it was because of my input. It was something that wasn't discussed on the forum. I think they do read the suggestions.

    Thanks - I'll have another crack at waking up Garmin Support - having no reply from US Support on my form-submitted question asking about firmware upgrade notes I tried AUS Support via their form for this and my other questions, namely

    On 9 November I submitted a Support form to AUS support and had a reply 10 November

    "Thank-you for your Garmin product support enquiry.

    In some cases, troubleshooting of products via email will cause unnecessary delays in achieving an effective resolution due to the level of direct interaction with the customer.

    In order for us to better support your situation, it would be appreciated if you could contact our Customer Service Team by telephone between 8:30am-5pm (Mon-Fri) EST, for further assistance:

    • 1800 235 822 (Australia)

    • 0800 427 652 (New Zealand)
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    When I phoned 16 November I spent 13 minutes on hold before the phone was answered. I asked my questions and the support person said she'd have to ask her supervisor for answers. At 25 minutes into the call I got a synthesised voice survey response about the success of that service [I'd got no answers]. I completed the survey and eventually hung up since I had to go ride my bike with my Joule GPS to do my threshold repeat intervals
  • * there is a bug which stops the device automatically selecting the most recently used (MRU) profile. On my device it always selects "Race" regardless of the last used profile

    This is clearly incorrect. The Edge 520 always reverts to the most recently used activity profile when it powers up. When the "Enter" button (top right button, button "7" in the 520 manual) is pressed, the most recently used activity profile is always at the top of the list.

    This is one of the most basic and important elements of the Edge 520's "workflow", particularly for people that regularly switch between multiple activity profiles - that the device always starts up on the last activity profile. If it didn't work this way, it would indeed be inconvenient.

    That 40ft is mistaken about this basic and important usability element must bring into question all of the items on his long list of issues with the Edge 520.
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    This is one of the most basic and important elements of the Edge 520's "workflow"


    You would think so wouldn't you.


    That 40ft is mistaken about this basic and important usability element must bring into question all of the items on his long list of issues with the Edge 520.


    Must? Really? Come on, be a little bit charitable. I already conceded I might not have everything correct. But, in this case, you are wrong, not I. I just rechecked, and it does exactly what I said. It even colors the entire UI with the color of my last used profile, but does not put it at the top of the list. Check the forums - I am not the only one to report this bug. And just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

    Got any other sweeping complaints?
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    This is clearly incorrect. The Edge 520 always reverts to the most recently used activity profile when it powers up. When the "Enter" button (top right button, button "7" in the 520 manual) is pressed, the most recently used activity profile is always at the top of the list.

    This is one of the most basic and important elements of the Edge 520's "workflow", particularly for people that regularly switch between multiple activity profiles - that the device always starts up on the last activity profile. If it didn't work this way, it would indeed be inconvenient.

    That 40ft is mistaken about this basic and important usability element must bring into question all of the items on his long list of issues with the Edge 520.


    That last used profile selection is indeed what is supposed to happen - but the 520 does not always do as it should. There is definitely a set of circumstances that can provoke the 520 into this type of incorrect profile selection behaviour.
  • If the unit is not starting with the last profile that you used then you need to clear the non-vol memory using one of the methods below.

    Prompted non-vol clear –

    • Turn device off
    • Hold the Down key while powering on the device
    • Continue holding the down key until the “Factory Reset” prompt appears
    • Select OK to clear


    Non-prompted Non-Vol Clear - Clears NV and deletes all FIT files including Activities, Courses, Workouts.

    • Turn device off
    • Hold Lap/Reset and Start/Stop
    • Press and release the power button
    • Continue to hold only Lap/Reset and Start/Stop
    • Release Lap/Reset and Start/Stop when the Garmin Logo is cleared
    • The unit will restart and clear non-vol
  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 9 years ago
    Garmin Application and Firmware Release notes?

    Thanks for the great info! After getting no replies using the Garmin Support form I'm tackling this forum's functionality

    Does anyone have answers to these questions please?

    1. How can the seconds display be maintained on the 24-hour "clock" for ride time after 60 minutes please?

    2. Is there any firmware update information that can be read, regardless of the apparent lack of any user-control over such updates?

    3. Can the low cadence alert be auto-disabled by the device when it knows I'm coasting downhill? [maybe a product enhancement]

    4. What's the most efficient way to switch to interval mode so I can see my stats for the current interval [rather than the ride] please? [e.g. with the Joule GPS I just press and hold the lap button to flip between ride and interval modes, so, when doing intervals the device displays current interval data without having to flip screens]

    Thanks for your help, Mark


    Today my Garmin Express was updated to v 4.1.12.0 and my 520 firmware to v3.10 [the previous version was 3.0.0 so maybe the updated is 3.1.0?]

    There should be release notes describing every release and user control of updates, including user-permitted auto-updates

    I've not found any release notes so don't know what fixes and improvement may have been made, nor where to look for further problems if claims are made for added functionality. Anyone know if these exist and their links please?

    The version number for Garmin Express and firmware numbers Devices known to it should be links to the release notes - very easy to do
  • Here is the link http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=9271

    Garmin Express should have an option to show the release notes. Instead of clicking "Install" there should be a button that reads "View". This will list all the items it will install with their release notes.

    [h=2]Change History[/h][h=4]Changes made from version 3.00 to 3.10:[/h]
    • Improved Varia bike light network performance when using multiple lights and a radar. Update your Varia Rearview Radar to software version 3.00 or greater to take advantage of this.
    • A new Radar sensor type has been added and new radar settings are available under Sensor Details that allow you to control radar tones, color overlay, and vehicle column position. These settings are available only after updating your Varia Rearview Radar to software version 3.00 or greater.
    • Reduced radar overlay obstruction while you are stopped and trying to use the menus.
    • Improved the light sensor menu and refined light mode options, adding a high visibility mode.
    • Added an improvement to simplify changing segment goals during a ride. While the message that you are approaching a segment is displayed, press the Enter (top-right) button to immediately bring up the page to change the segment goal type.
    • Added a toggle for workout target zone alerts. Go to Menu > Settings > Activity Profiles > [Profile Name] > Alerts. 'Workout Target Alerts' will control whether or not you see alerts for being outside a target zone value during a workout while using this profile.
    • Added the ability to take pictures with a connected Virb. This item appears on the Status page with the Virb recording control.
    • Added the option to always receive a prompt to calibrate a paired power meter when the Edge 520 finds it and the timer is not running. Go to Menu > Settings > Sensor > [Power Meter] > Sensor Details. 'Calibration Prompts' will control this setting on this power meter.
    • Updated the Auto Sleep time to five minutes.
    • Fixed a bug preventing alert pages from displaying correctly in night mode.