Let's hope for something as good as ZoneSense??

What, you mean like Training Effect?

youtu.be/bD3O4BZ9vIc

tl;dw it's real time intensity

[https://www.suunto.com/en-ca/Content-pages/suunto-zonesense/]

This would be a great addition to Garmin. Zone Sense uses HRV analysis to evaluate the lactate thresholds and use this information to evaluate the current metabolic cost.

Today Garmin uses HR and HRV to determine the lactate anaerobic threshold, but not the aerobic threshold.

Knowing both over long efforts helps keep easy efforts easy, despite HR drift, and optimize marathon and half-marathon efforts, where you have to manage your time above the lactate threshold.

You can use the CIQ appas like alphaHRV or DFA Alpha 1 in the mean time.

apps.garmin.com/.../8ef212c0-cef3-413f-b703-f01bb5eea8ed

Not sure it works well for short intervals or activities like strength training...

This would be a great addition to Garmin. Zone Sense uses HRV analysis to evaluate the lactate thresholds and use this information to evaluate the current metabolic cost.

Today Garmin uses HR and HRV to determine the lactate anaerobic threshold, but not the aerobic threshold.

Knowing both over long efforts helps keep easy efforts easy, despite HR drift, and optimize marathon and half-marathon efforts, where you have to manage your time above the lactate threshold.

You can use the CIQ appas like alphaHRV or DFA Alpha 1 in the mean time.

apps.garmin.com/.../8ef212c0-cef3-413f-b703-f01bb5eea8ed

It doesn't work well for short intervals and I am not sure it works for activities that don't have a mechanical output metric (pace, power) like strength training, rowing, hockey, etc

Etupes25 said:

alphaHRV or DFA Alpha 1

I've tried the CIQ apps and, for me, they are pure random generators. I even gave DFA Alpha 1 a bluetooth connection to the Polar H10 - the recommended protocol for maximum data flow - and it still judged me to have entered the Lactate Threshold (LT2) at a Heart rate of ca 120; ie slow, slow jog or streneous power walk. Never mind it trying to pin my LT1...

I vaguely remember having read an article about the DFA Alpha method of looking for LT1, and it said that the (published) results were disappointing, to say the least. Mirroring my own experience of randomness.

Having done the blood-tests to determine LT1 and LT2 Heart Rate/Paces and grueling (in control) Max Pace 6-minute runs (I'll die! I'll die!) to compute vVO2Max (Velocity at VO2Max) I am quite content with those three data points.

But of course, if Suntoo's ZoneSense DDFA index method could provide all that without blood and sweat (and extra money), we'd all be happier runners. Still, I'm having a hard time seeing the use of a constant evaluation of the state - if it even works. We all know that pulse drift and fatigue sets in on longer runs, and most of us (I imagine) have a hard time slowing down in an effort to lower the pulse enough. Do I really need another pointer from the watch that I'm 'doing it wrong'/'failing' in my objective...

I’m really happy with my FR965, but honestly, I love this new feature from Suunto. If Garmin doesn’t come out with something similar soon, I’ll consider selling it and getting a Suunto Race.

soptunna said:

I've tried the CIQ apps and, for me, they are pure random generators

Yes, I found about the same. I was looking for LT1, and it took a very controlled environment (treadmill, indoor cycle) and a calibrated ramp I had found online to detect it close enough.

Once HR @ LT1 was defined though, I found the real time DFA data too random to be useable during a workout.

Suunto apparently uses some learning mechanism to increase the accuracy of their detection.

It will be interesting to see the Suunto user experience.

Note that the presenter in the video eventually says that the zonesense reflects what you feel.

Anyway, hopefully Garmin will implement some algorithm for LT1 detection.

We have metrics that are completely useless, like stamina, which is very inaccurate. And when something as good as ZoneSense appears, it will probably take years for us to have it in Garmin... or maybe never.