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it is becoming a joke to own garmin gadgets

Issues with Garmin 965 and E1040 for Cycling

Over the past six months, I have experienced increasingly poor performance with my Garmin 965 and E1040 devices used for cycling. Below are the key issues I have encountered:

  1. Declining Fitness Level Readings:

    • My fitness level, as reported by the Garmin app, has dropped from 43-46 down to 32, despite no significant change in my actual performance.
    • As a lifelong athlete approaching 60, I know my body well and can recover my fitness level quickly after breaks. Garmin's calculations are inaccurate and need correction.
  2. Incorrect Overreaching and Strain Indicators:

    • The app now ALWAYS shows my status as overreaching or strained, marked in orange, which contradicts the performance data recorded by other platforms like Strava and Ride with GPS, where I consistently set personal records.
  3. Incorrect Sleep Tracking:

    • Despite getting nearly 10 hours of good sleep after tough cycling sessions, the watch inaccurately reports that I haven't slept, indicating a malfunction with my less-than-one-year-old 965.
  4. Incorrect Energy Calculations:

    • There is a significant error in calculating movement and energy expenditure (kcal) from my Favero Assioma power pedals. Garmin's app confuses kilojoules and kilocalories, leading to faulty consumption data.
    • For example, during a 5.5-hour ride on the Isle of Wight, my expected energy expenditure was around 5500 kcal, but Garmin reported only 2000 kcal, which is incorrect.
  5. Incorrect Power Readings from Favero Assioma Pedals:

    • My pedal power readings average between 90-95 watts, significantly lower than the 220-320 watts I typically achieve. Tests in the gym confirm that my power is in the 220-250 watts range.
    • I am confident in my power output, especially during steep climbs where I exert up to 1000 watts, but the pedals do not reflect this accurately.
  6. Poorly Designed Incline Map on E1040:

    • The incline map feature often appears at inconvenient times and obstructs navigation. During strenuous rides with heavy climbs, such as those on the Isle of Wight, it becomes a safety hazard as I struggle to navigate and swipe through screens under duress.

Summary of Errors and Potential Causes:

  • Sleep Tracking Error: Clearly a Garmin issue with the watch.
  • Overreaching Indicator: Could be due to errors with pedals, watch, or E1040, but needs serious correction.
  • Energy Calculation: Garmin's misunderstanding of movement vs. energy consumption leads to inaccurate calculations.
  • Fitness Level Error: Another clear Garmin error with incorrect assessments.
  • Power Readings: Despite proper calibration, power readings remain incorrect.
  • Incline Map Design: Poor user experience that poses a safety risk during intense rides.

Conclusion: I am considering discontinuing the use of these expensive Garmin products due to their consistent malfunctions and inaccuracies. It's becoming clear that other, simpler devices or competitors may provide a better user experience without the high cost and frustration. Is anyone else feeling the same way about Garmin's products? It might be time to form a group to address these concerns and explore alternatives.

  • Oh, I just found my fitness level is 29 today, a new record!

  • 1, 2 and 5 are tightly linked. Vo2 Max estimates are highly dependent on power readings. If your VO2 Max decreases, there is a high chance that the training status will show a negative trend (unproductive, strained).

    Make sure that your Max HR is set correctly.

    For the pedals, make sure that the duo/single setting in the Assioma app is correctly set.

    Note:

    - it is unclear how you measure your "performance", but you can maintain race time performance with a declining VO2 Max (although your drop in VO2 Max is worrisome).

    - it is unclear how you measure cycling power at the gym, but built-in power meters can be very inaccurate. Same goes for calories estimates on indoor bike.

  • Etupes25,

    I appreciate your attempt to engage, but it's crucial to understand the basics of energy measurement here. I’m 96 kg, 188 cm tall, and I completed a 117 km ride with 1600 meters of climbing at an average speed of 22 km/h. For this effort, Garmin showing only 2000 kcal is blatantly inaccurate.

    To put it simply, movement energy (kJ) and energy consumption (kcal) are not the same. Based on standard calculations for someone of my size and effort level, the expected calorie burn should be in the range of 5,000 to 6,000 kcal—not 2000.

    If multiple reliable sources and my own calculations align around this higher value, then the method isn’t the problem. The issue is Garmin’s misreporting, plain and simple. It’s not about how the data is measured; it’s about the fact that Garmin’s data is consistently wrong.

    Let’s focus on the real problem here: Garmin's devices are delivering inaccurate results that undermine their purpose for serious athletes.

    Energy Expenditure Calculation:

    1. Flat Terrain Estimate: Typically around 30-35 kcal per km for moderate effort.
    2. Incline Adjustment: Considering 1600 meters of climbing, calorie expenditure increases significantly.

    Using a conservative estimate:
                                                    Energy (kcal)=Distance (km)×Calorie Estimate per km

    For my case:
                                                    Energy (kcal)=117km×4550km/kcal=5,2655,850kcal

  • I have also discovered that as soon as  connect my power pedals the kcal goes completely wrong. Then you get the utopic values I have shown you.

    I do agree it is likely the pedals that are the culprits here for power values.

  • I question whether you are averaging 220 to 320 watts over 5.5 hours--that's Grand Tour level power, which is far beyond that of a heavy 60-year-old rider. Likewise, I question whether you are actually burning 1000 kcals/hour for 5.5 hours--which, again, would Grand Tour level energy consumption. I don't know which device you're using in the gym to replicate a 5.5-hour ride to come up with numbers like that, but I question whether it's accurate. You don't indicate how fast or far you rode on your "Isle of Wight" tour, but I suspect that ~2000 kcals might not be that far off. So, you are either the rare 60-year-old rider capable of racing the Tour de France, or you may be overestimating your performance...

  • 4&5.  Power Meter likely just needs the 'double power value' in the setting of the Favero app, I know for me it has to be set that way.

                  So based on that power that you expect in the 220+, you are able to maintain 18-22mph(~32kph) on flat terrain on a normal roadbike pretty easy (non-aerobar, non-disc)?  Cuz yeah, <100w is 'pretty low' if you are a cyclist. 

    1&2 : sure what the 'fitness level' is... assuming vo2max..? Age?  For all fitness and training related metrics in Garmin, need to make sure you have a manually set maximum heart rate setting for running and biking in the app for the watch.  Also need accurate weight.  

  • Calories calc'd when using a power meter is purely from the power meter kJ to Cal conversion... so if your power meter value needs to be doubled, your calories will be half of reality.

    EDIT:  See your replies, not the 117km ride and speed of 22kph (13mph)... that is likely 80-120w for a rolling hills ride.   Tricky depending on what your wearing, tire choices, chain condition etc.  But for me ~32kph is 245w avg over a few hours without much climbing 300-400m per 100k maybe

  • Gammon has left the building....