Different default heart rate zones for general training and running. Why?

It’s a proprietary algorithm that uses your past performance data.

Any chance the general value is 220 minus your age?

support.garmin.com/.../

Hi expo8282,

Thanks for your quick response.

I'm sorry to say that you seem to have misunderstood my question. My question is about my 965 displaying different heart rate zones for the general zones and the running zones.

Your answer relates to clarifying whether I have two different maximum heart rates in the two areas. I've set the 965 to use the auto-detect feature for maximum heart rate and the watch has set my maximum heart rate to be the same for both the general maximum heart rate and the running maximum heart rate. The maximum heart rate the watch detected is 172, while using the formula you cited, my maximum heart rate should be 148.

Yes, I misread your question, you are asking why the zone 5 numbers are 93-100 and 90-100 and so on for each zone.

I would expect them to be the same all the documentation I am aware of uses the 90-100 bracket.

I checked my defaults and they are the same as the running values which match your running values. I hate to say it but I think your defaults changed some how.

You might want to reset them and see what values you get. 

Once again, thanks for the quick response.

Took your advice and reset the general heart rate zones. You are correct. They reset to be the same as those for the running zones. Thanks for the suggestion.

However, the mystery persists. I never reset the general zones, so how did they come to change? Perhaps I'll see after I do some workouts over the next week.

I don't know the answer as a sports doctor would know, but from my experience (which is kind of the opposite of your's) is that when I run (especially in a race) my HR is relatively high (way higher than 220-age), but when I ride a bike or swim or in a strength training I seem to be lower. Now here's the guessing part, but it's possible that in certain sports you'll never be able to reach the actual max HR of your body, while in other sports you can get to (at least very close) to it.

If this is true, then there's still the next question though: what is the correct max HR, lactate threshold, HR zone setting of each sport? I mostly run. but even if I only look at running, there are multiple ways. You can do lab test, or you can do a few different self tests by running. Some will give you the max HR, others will give you the lactate threshold, some will give you the pace you can maintain for long, some maybe some other value. The watch itself claims to be able to automatically detect and set your max HR, lactate threshold. Are these detections correct? NO! Are they even close? NOOOO! Just last week I finished a run, and at the end it gave me an updated max HR of 158, but my max HR in the same activity was 178bpm!

Now let's assume you have either your CORRECT max HR and/or lactate threshold and/or resting HR reserve set correctly for running. The next question is: what is the best way to set up the HR zones? Based on max HR or LTHR or Resting HR?

Let's assume you set the HR zones based on correct, best of the above. Now the watch is giving you an update of the max HR or LTHR (the one that you based your HR zones on). Does it change the zones? I don't now. What I know is this: I never changed the percentages of the different zones, I just accepted the default values Garmin gave. (Just a side note: even those percentages have a high variability if you search the internet. Some of them will give you slightly different bpm values for some zones, but in some cases there can be a very big difference if you're training based on HR zone - i.e with one set of percentages 130bpm can be the highest value in zone 2, but with other set of percentages 130 can be the lowest value of zone 4). However after some time (probably after a few changes of the maxHR, LTHR) when I clicked on resetting the HR zones, I saw that the numbers (percentages) are changing. So my GUESS is that once you set the HR zones (based on the given max HR and the given percentages) the HR zones are saved as BPM, and when later your max HR changes, the bpms don't change, but it adjusts the percentages. That's why when later (after some max HR change) I reseted the HR zones all the percentages changed. I can't find another logical explanation to this (though to me this isn't a logical way, I would assume that if Garmin decides that my max HR increased then the boundaries of the HR zones should also increase, but again I'm not a doctor, and I don't really understand all these things, I'm just a software developer, applying my logic + some youtube "knowledge" + personal experience)

But there's more: so let's assume you established the correct max HR, LTHR, resting HR for running. Is it the same for biking or swimming? I don't know...

And let's assume you have all these set for all the sports with their different values. Why isn't this a setting of the User? All these are settings of "User Profile", but not below your user profile but rather under your DEVICE/User profile. Meaning that if you have more than one device then they all can be set to different values.

Flocsy - As a runner and biker, but I was a runner first... it becomes very clear when trying to training with zones in biking, that it is VERY difficult if you are fit runner... to use the same zones for biking!!!  It will be VERY difficult to hit and/or maintain equivilant HR for certain workouts... like oh I wanna hit around 170bpm for a threshold 20' effort... I know from experience I likely will be only at 165.  You just don't use enough muscles while biking/swimming.  Similar to if you just did a ton of curls and shoulder presses for many minutes... you wouldn't elevate HR super high, and your arms would give out first!!  Generally it is shown (especially if you are not an elite level cyclist) that your Max HR you can hit while biking will usually be 5-10bpm lower then running, swimming even a bit less.  

To All.... I highly recommend disabling the Auto Max HR feature!  just cuz I don't hit my maximum of 195 for a few months... and watch sees 185 as my new hard interval HR... doesn't mean my max is now 185-194!  You can reset a maximum HR...downwards!  A couple weeks back I was confused why my vo2max kept dropping after years of being steady!  Then eventually I noted my zone 5 HR ranges were a bit different then I remembered... by the time I realized it my max had been adjusted by new watch by 10bpm down over a few weeks... !  

When you let the watch auto-detect your Max HR, a new detection may wreak havok in the percentages of zones. There is a bug there. Based on other user postings, it is hard to say it is limited to zones defined by Max HR (for example based on LTHR). If my memory serves me well, some other users have seen issues with their zones after a threshold detection.

I personally have seen Max HR zones being messed up after a new Max HR detection, but not when I use %HRR. I have not seen issues after LTHR auto-detection or built-in test results.

Some users recommend to disable Max HR auto-detect just because of this. Some users (like me in the past) recommend to disable Max HR because the detection can be seriously off, either because of relying on the wrist HR, or because your chest strap sent prolonged erroneous readings for a reason or another.

In the recent firmware versions, Garmin has visibly improved the algorithm. 

A new Max HR can be detected without a "maximal" effort (even during an easy run). A run can generate a new Max HR for cycling and vice-versa. This is unexpected, and not perfect. Now, it can detect an increase or a decrease (contrary to what the documentation suggests).

My auto-detected values are accurate, but I still get a wrong detection from time to time.

If you have had your Max HR tested, there is no reason to let the auto-detection on. 

If you are a trained athlete, you can bite the bullet and do a max HR field test to confirm what the watch estimates.

Otherwise, you can start with an age-based formula, wear a chest strap, perform a variety of efforts and let the watch correct your Max HR. After each detection, reset your zones. After a few detections, when you see about 1bpm difference, you can turn it off for the next 12 months, and enjoy your updated metrics.

Thanks for your insights regarding the expected differences for maximum heart rate and zones when comparing running to biking. I was aware of the likely difference. As I'm not a cyclist, this difference doesn't concern me.

Regarding your suggestion to disable the Auto-Detection for maximum heart rate: I have this feature turned on. Over the past few months, the watch has used this feature to set and reset my maximum heart rate in a range of 172-175. I rarely, less than once every few months, get to this heart rate range. This is why I trust the watch's algorithm to determine what my maximum heart rate is and reset the zones appropriately. The resetting of my maximum heart rate the recommended workout heart rate targets only one or two beats per minute. This is inconsequential as it is well within the acceptable range for the workout. Because of this, I see no negatives to having the Auto-Detection function turned on.

As a 72 year old runner, I've seen my maximum heart rate drop over the last few years from 180. I expect this as a normal part of aging and am glad that the watch can adjust and that I don't have to constantly retest my maximum.

You have a great MaxHR for a 72 YO. I'm 61 and mine is around 168. 

I've not experienced auto-detection "wreak(ing) havok in the percentages of zones." See my response to NickMN for why I see using auto-detection as a big positive with little negative consequences.