A general conversation about the future of MIP for our watches..

Meaningless anecdote: a sub-elite runner I know who used to rock a 235 finally upgraded...to a 255S.

The last time we talked about new watches, I told him about how OLED isn't truly always on, which means you can't take a quick glance at your stats during a hard running workout without waiting a split second for the screen to go to full brightness.

I like to think I convinced him to get a MIP 255 instead of an OLED 265, but then again, maybe the 255 was on sale.

Either way, ppl who actually care about this stuff are obviously in the minority. Someone who's buying their first running watch (or switching from Apple Watch) won't ever have experienced "true always on" and wouldn't know what they're missing (and likely wouldn't care). I also know others who've upgraded from a MIP Garmin to an OLED Garmin (including another pretty fast runner), and I've heard zero complaints.

I fully agree.

I started with an OLED display, and although visually satisfying I found it frustrating from a practical one (and even experienced a little screen burning even while paying attention to it).
I therefore purchased a 955.
In a few years maybe we will have truly usable OLEDs in always-on mode but in the meanwhil I hope both tech will survive in top end devices

Very likely Fenix and Instinct will remain MIP since those target markets are people coming from Casio like watches, and/or where you want battery endurance. Unfortunately Forerunner seems to be moving completely to AMOLED which is unfortunate since the 955 is much lighter and comfortable alternative to the Fenix series.

I prefer MIP/LCD as a daily watch since I find the readability for basic data screens with white background and good bold font better (even indoors). But a map with high resolution and colors is definitely a weak point. AMOLED makes a big difference for maps, but if in most cases you just follow a track and don't need active rerouting, either will work (and a phone is even better...).

They could make AMOLED bit better to allow at least data screen with white background in high power mode. Second somewhat brighter AON outdoors since it's not readable for me in bright sunlight unless you rotate your wrist indeed. On the other hand I think MIP can be further improved by increasing resolution and have a better frontlight that increases contrast bit better. Likely active displays is where most of the developments will be unfortunately.

dont be surprised if Fenix goes amoled, what was holding amoled back was power consumption, and thats less of an issue now, and amoled's are selling like hotcakes.... garmin will make whatever sells... 

Less of an issue but I'd think they want to still cover the (perhaps more niche) "Adventure" target market. Multi-day or even multi-week scenario with solar support where function is more important than flashiness. At least that seems most logical and Instinct appears to be successful line due to diff audience despite not being AMOLED.

Not that I have any "insight" into what Garmin is planning:-). But rumors certainly still point to that division where we'd see a new Instinct first and Fenix 8 later.

i this is really it. does Garmin publish numbers for Fenix 7 vs Epic 2. those would be illuminating.

sadly, as mentioned above, i am pretty sure Forerunners with be AMOLED when the "75" series arrives. i'm open to trying an AMOLED out, but i'd also consider moving to Fenix 8 if that stayed MIPS and i could handle the weight for sleeping and general use. never had one but have been very happy with the light weight of the Forerunner for many years (210, 735XT, 935, 955)

The forerunner with nylon strap is really very comfortable and very light, i wouldn't replace it with the fenix unless really forced for that i hope the forerunner series will keep 2 versions like fenix and epix

6417802 said:

i hope the forerunner series will keep 2 versions like fenix and epix

No offense but why do people keep saying this? Many of the ppl in this thread wish that would’ve happened, but that ship has already sailed. FR165 (the successor to FR55) is AMOLED, what more anecdotal evidence do people want?

If Garmin wanted to maintain two lines of Forerunner — one MIP and one AMOLED — they wouldn’t have released AMOLED 165, 265 and 965 after MIP 55, 255 and 955. They would’ve changed the name of the AMOLED Forerunners (or added a suffix) like they did with Fenix / Epix or Tactix / Tactix AMOLED.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only MIP watches Garmin released in 2023 were Fenix 7* Pro and Instinct 2X. Garmin also released several AMOLED Forerunners in 2023 (965, 265 and 165). That should tell people something.

All of the latest Forerunners - low (165), mid (265) and high end (965) - are AMOLED. Doesn’t matter if 55, 255 and 955 are still being sold, only ppl who specifically want MIP or a bargain will buy those. Nobody will buy an older model for no reason. It means that Forerunner = AMOLED for any new customers, the vast majority of whom won’t know or care about MIP.

How would it make sense for 975 to be MIP, for example, after 965, 265 and 165 were all AMOLED? You might say, maybe there will be 975 (AMOLED) and a special “975 MIP” model, but I can’t see that happening either. MIP is not a selling point, battery life is a selling point (hence Fenix, Instinct and Enduro), and battery life is already good enough on the AMOLED Forerunners. If ppl want better battery life, they can buy a Fenix, Instinct or Enduro.

I think the premise of the OP is wrong — Garmin didn’t split Forerunner into two lines with *55 vs *65 models, nobody thinks that way. Same as nobody thinks that iPhone 14 and iPhone 15 are two different product lines. iPhone 14 is the older model, iPhone 15 is the newer model. Same as 955 is the older model, 965 is the newer model.

Just because the older models have tech that some of us like, doesn’t mean they’re somehow a separate product line that will last forever. Clearly 265 is supposed to replace 255 and 165 is supposed to replace 55. One day Garmin will stop making and selling Forerunner *55 and that will be the end of MIP Forerunners.

Fenix 7 vs Epix (gen 2) is a different story, as Epix (gen 2) is basically an AMOLED Fenix 7, and they clearly wanted to keep the actual Fenix series on MIP, so they gave the “AMOLED Fenix” a different name. But according to DCR, that may have been a mistake, since apparently some customers have been asking “where’s the AMOLED Fenix?” since they don’t realize that’s what Epix gen 2 was supposed to be.

I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it. Doesn’t even matter what I think, DCR and others have been saying that MIP is dead for Forerunners for a long time.

Of course, Garmin's startegy is clearly defined but I have the hope (or rather wish) that precisely the top of the range, to meet users with specific needs and who care about functionality and not aesthetics, will also be offered with MIP technology. For some, the current OLED still has limitations.