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A general conversation about the future of MIP for our watches..

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over 1 year ago

Just got the 955 Solar.  Love it.  That said, I see Garmin has made great strides in the AMOLED offerings.  I would love to get ahold of their K1 annual reporting to see how they are affecting sales from a financial standpoint, but I am sure it's great for Garmin as many just want the pretty look on the screen (totally get that).   Personally, I was tempted by the Epix myself but living in Maimi, FL where I have bright, non-stop sun every day the MIP display is just amazing.  I love that it "feels" more like a regular watch vs a typical "smart watch" in that sense.  

Anyway, the question I have (which I know none of you can answer, lol) is do we think that Garmin will continue to offer MIP's in the future?  I saw one post on Reddit where someone thought that maybe phasing them out.  That would make me sad (and others I am sure).  But, I can't help but see a pattern in their product offerings that appear to support both types moving forward.:

The base, you have the 45 / 55 (which I am sure may be consolidated to just the 55 in the future).  This of course is MIP screen.

Then, I feel like the 245 will stop and the 255 is really that replacement (also MIP).   The 265 is the dedicated AMOLED version.

Same with the 955 / 955 Solar.  MIP, but the 965 AMOLED version.

Then with the Fenix.  You now have all MIP and all solar.    The AMOLED version would of course be the Epix line.

In fact, the only real place where I don't see an option anymore is on the Marq line.  Now all AMOLED.  Also the other lines like the Venue etc (II dont even pay attention to them, not my style) seem to be going all AMOLED.

What are your thoughts?  Again, this is not a knock against the AMOLED watches.  I am sure they are great, just truly wondering how Garmin will move forward.

  • 0 over 1 year ago

    As pretty as Amoled is, Id rather have MIP for a sports watch. I really hope that they don't stop making them. But jusdging by the FR165 and FR265 it seems likely that most new watches will have Amoled.

    It would be nice to have  the choice between displays.  E.g. FR165 with MIP or Amoled, I have both Amoled and MIP and imo the MIP is better during an activity and just as a watch.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Jacquers
    Jacquers said:
    It would be nice to have  the choice between displays

    Yeah it would but are enough people willing to pay for that? DCR keeps saying that the market isn't there for MIP in sufficient numbers anymore, in explaining that it never made sense for Apple to use it and it doesn't make sense for Garmin to stick with it.

    I'm not happy about it either, but I'm trying to be realistic.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Jacquers

    It would also be nice to have small compact smart phones with flagship specs. And plenty of other nice things that one just can't get even anymore. Everything is ruined.... 

    it will interesting to see will Fenix and Epix merge or not. Hard to see that future Forerunner's would switch back to MIP. So probably for people wanting to stay with MIP it's hoping Epix and Fenix stays like they are, Epix for AMOLED and Fenix for MIP.

    I would guess that Epix and Fenix will eventually merge. Is it already in Fenix 8, we'll see this year....

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to jmto
    jmto said:
    I would guess that Epix and Fenix will eventually merge. Is it already in Fenix 8, we'll see this year....

    Yeah, didn’t DCR also say that he thinks Garmin messed up the marketing for Epix? He basically said that customers keep asking “where’s the AMOLED Fenix”, not realizing that’s basically what Epix is. Maybe it proves the point that’s it’s not really possible for AMOLED and MIP variants to coexist.

    I also don’t think it would help to literally have explicit split product lines like “Forerunner 975 MIP” and “Forerunner 975 AMOLED”, bc again, Garmin used AMOLED as a selling point for the latest generation of watches, and it wouldn’t make sense for them to turn around say “but wait, here’s why you might prefer MIP instead!!!” (except for the battery life argument with watches like Enduro). Any other argument you could make for MIP regarding outdoor visibility, truly always-on display, etc. would only serve to make AMOLED look bad, or it would be something that most people would either not care about or not agree with. Again, look at all the media coverage along the lines of “finally MIP is dying” and “AMOLED = new and hot, MIP = old and busted”.

    This is just like how Apple continued to sell LCD iPhones alongside AMOLED iPhones for a while, and the implicit justification was that the cheaper devices got the worse screen. But now all iPhones are AMOLED.

    Anyway, this goes back to the old argument about how you can’t truly vote with your dollars bc the market isn’t granular enough. Once AMOLED became good enough (in terms of battery life and lack of burn in) for Garmin, and once enough users demanded AMOLED in their devices, then the writing was on the wall for MIP.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to FlowState

    That's the question. From comments here and on other forums, including DCR it would seem like there are still many who prefer MIP. Hopefully Garmin will keep making them.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Jacquers

    These forums are bad indicator for anything. The mass is not here. What I would conclude from these forums, that if the forums even isn't clear that MIP ftw, MIP does not have a change.

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to FlowState
    FlowState said:
    He basically said that customers keep asking “where’s the AMOLED Fenix”, not realizing that’s basically what Epix is. Maybe it proves the point that’s it’s not really possible for AMOLED and MIP variants to coexist.

    If so, also good point that there just isn't room for screen variants.

    FlowState said:
    This is just like how Apple continued to sell LCD iPhones alongside AMOLED iPhones for a while, and the implicit justification was that the cheaper devices got the worse screen. But now all iPhones are AMOLED.

    And after things like Forerunner 165, there isn't much space for MIP, maybe for 2 number models and Enduro (for now).

    But maybe Garmin still does them, as they have really ridiculous amount of different watches that really common sense can't understand why they have so many different watches.. After now using AMOLED, have to say it isn't so bad as I feared, so can't say I would choose MIP over AMOLED anymore, so hard to see that big enough market would exists so that I would see it justified. 

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to jmto
    jmto said:
    But maybe Garmin still does them, as they have really ridiculous amount of different watches that really common sense can't understand why they have so many different watches

    Yeah they have over 100 watch variants that support Connect IQ (basically any watch released since circa 2014), not even including different colors or certain variants like Fenix vs. Quatix. Out of all that insane market segmentation (which customers constantly complain about), they don't have room for MIP variants with the exception of a couple of lines (for now).

    If say, half of Garmin customers demanded MIP, they'd surely find a way to have a MIP variant for every line. But nope, every line that's switched to AMOLED has abandoned MIP completely, and there's a few lines which never had MIP in the first place now.

    Also, notice how zero products have "MIP" in the name. Not only bc it's the older (and previously default) tech, but also bc it's not exactly a cool selling point. Contrast with "Tactix 7 AMOLED Edition".

    For example, if MIP was the selling point that some might imagine it was, Garmin could conceivably rename Forerunner 955 to "Forerunner 955 - MIP Edition", but that will never happen.

    Most Garmin customers, new or existing, wouldn't even know what "MIP" is. You'd have to explain it's the "old" Garmin display tech, at which point they'd be like "ohhhh you mean the one that looks dull and washed out compared to apple watch and new garmins".

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to FlowState

    A garmin watch is a training tool not a gimmick with fancy colour screen like an apple watch. It should be functional! I don’t see how amoled is more functional than a MIP screen. 

  • 0 over 1 year ago in reply to Maurice

    It's just prettier with several drawbacks and practical issues.

    Garmin upgraded the Fenix 7 Pro MIP screen for better low light visibility, which I don't think they would have don't if MIP was completely dead. It still makes sense for some models. I just hope we get at least some Forerunners (beyond entry level) with MIP screens going forward.

    There's also tech like this, which could be an option? https://www.azumotech.com/ (formerly Flex)