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New HR Recovery interface is bad

Levon
over 4 years ago

TL;DR: Information that was automatically and readily available now requires a series of button pushes and is cumbersome. Nothing is gained by this change. I've been using Garmin watches since 2006 - this is a step backwards.

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I know this has been addressed as part of a different thread, but I think it deserves it's own thread.

I just came back from a run. Previously this would have happened:

  • Stop my watch and start walking as part of my cool-down
  • After 2 minutes exactly, my recovery HR would pop up consistently and automatically (giving me a meaningful basis for comparison with previous runs), and I would stop my cool-down walk and start stretching.
  • I could dismiss it with one button push.

Total number of button pushes: 1  - couldn't have been easier.

Now:

  • Stop my watch and start walking as part of my cool-down
  • 5 button-down pushes to check for recovery HR - it doesn't pop up automatically and consistently after 2 minutes.
    It's there, but how quickly? It seemed to be available immediately. Usually recovery HR is taken after a minute, Garmin has done it after two minutes for years (which is cool) .. now when does it get measured? I didn't wait two minutes to look for it. And is it measured continuously? 
  • And I have to then navigate back to where I was before with several additional button pushes.

Total number of button pushes: 6 or more, and no automatic display, not intuitive or easy.

And, sadly, this information is STILL not made available in the Connect app or on the web, if so, I wouldn't mind the poorer interface now.

I understand this was done because some people were pausing their activity, and then disliked having to have to dismiss the automatic recovery HR screen. If you are pausing for more than two minutes (this is rare for me, and probably most), then I think you can muster an additional button push. Let's say this affect 3% (or 10%) of all activities. 

Everyone (100%) who was getting the recover HR automatically at the end of their activity now has to push the buttons at least 6 times to get this info - doesn't seem like a good trade-off (or UI design).  I love the Garmin interfaces usually, esp on the watches in the last few years. They have been incredibly intuitive. I just helped a friend who switched from an Apple watch to a 235 and she picked it right up. But this is a step backward.

Please make the recover HR available in the connect app/web and consider going back to the previous way (or at least making this an option).

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Yes, I know this is a first-world problem, but it's a small device and UI considerations matter. I've been using Garmins for a long time and have enjoyed the progress they have made. I'd like them to continue in that direction.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to CloggyAbroad
    CloggyAbroad said:
    but there can be no discussion about the fact it needed fixing

    I disagree to agree. It's not illogical that on a popup screen you press back to discard it, this is the way popups are handled through the complete Garmin user interface.

    We all know that Garmin will not reinstate the heart rate recovery feedback screen 2 minutes after session end as they are not known to come back on decisions taken, but don't ask us to like this decision as it was a very poor decision in my humble opinion.

    What many fail to see is that the decision to remove this functionality (heart rate drop feedback after 2 minutes without interaction) removes immediate feedback about form (the heart rate level at end and the amount the heart rate drops after 2 minutes for similar training sessions can be an indication of increasing/decreasing form, the bigger drop the better) which can be an important metric for any athlete.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to peterdedecker

    You're not getting the point Peter.  Pressing a button to discard a popup screen is not the issue, the problem is that if you pressed that same button before the popup screen appeared you resumed the activity. Hence my statement that pressing a single button could have two different outcomes, which is bad UI design and needed fixing. I am glad Garmin did.

    Of course Garmin will not reinstate the old method: why would they reintroduce the same flaw in their UI?

    For those who find the Recovery HR a useful feature it is still there, just accessed in a different way.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to CloggyAbroad
    CloggyAbroad said:
    For those who find the Recovery HR a useful feature it is still there, just accessed in a different way.

    The feedback after 2 minutes without interaction is not unimportant so you also miss my point,...

    ...but I think we can agree that we will not be able to convince each other:

    - you like the new way and think it was a good decision.

    - I don't like the new way and think it's a very poor decision.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to peterdedecker
    peterdedecker said:
    I disagree to agree. It's not illogical that on a popup screen you press back to discard it, this is the way popups are handled through the complete Garmin user interface.

    That's the way I remember it.  To be fair, I never tried pressing the upper right button (also referred to as "start/stop") before to confirm it would discard the pop-up screen, I always used the "back" button instead because that is standard Garmin procedure for discarding a pop-up scrreen.  Maybe all the buttons discarded the screen for all I know.

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to badbri
    badbri said:
    That's the way I remember it.  To be fair, I never tried pressing the upper right button (also referred to as "start/stop") before to confirm it would discard the pop-up screen, I always used the "back" button instead because that is standard Garmin procedure for discarding a pop-up scrreen.

    Indeed.

    It's actually also strange that the main initiator for this change is for people that apparently use start/stop/resume a lot during their training.

    Surely for running (which is likely the main activity type for a person that owns a Forerunner) this stop/resume tactic is just fooling yourself (and the watch) if you take rest breaks in between your training.

    It's a lot easier to do a 4 hour run with a lot of 5 minute breaks in between (as you recover during the break) than it is to do a 4 hour run without breaks.

    Or an example more understandable for short distance track runners, if you do stop/resume tactic after each 400m lap you may be able to complete a 5k at your sprint speed. You'll be rewarded with a great (but fake) vo2max figure.

    At times I also do take breaks but I just let the timer run during the break, the average speed does drop while you're standing still (well that's just the reality if you stop running your average drops) but you also recover during the period of standing still (you stop to drink/eat/talk or whatever and after the break you have renewed energy to resume the run).

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to peterdedecker

    when i record trainings, i never stop them, otherwise it's not a training sessions! Stuck out tongue closed eyes

    seems, this feature is for cheater! Stuck out tongue closed eyes

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Yes, I agree that this is a step back and also would like to see it recorded and viewable in the GC stats.

    After the update I have looked at the recovery heart rate once, before it was a routine that I waited for the rhr pop up before saving. Optimally, after the exercise, I would like to see an automatic little pop up bubble with the text RHR, countdown timer and the current heart rate. 

    Although, without the ability to record and view the trends of the RHR over time I'm not sure how useful it is altogether to even display it. How do you use the data now? I usually have variable activity levels during the the recovery measuring phase, so not sure how comparable the results are. Also depending on how hard the exercise was I get quite a lot of variation in the rhr measurements. 

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to peterdedecker
    peterdedecker said:
    Or an example more understandable for short distance track runners, if you do stop/resume tactic after each 400m lap you may be able to complete a 5k at your sprint speed. You'll be rewarded with a great (but fake) vo2max figure.

    If that's verified and just an assumption it's just erroneous calculation on Garmin side. Even if you stop or pause an activity the overall activity timer continues. WKO, Golden cheetah take that pause time into consideration when calculating CP/FTP. I would be really surprised if Garmin formula is so poorly written that it doesn't calculate with overall timer.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    FWIW, you can view the Recovery HR saved in your past activities on runalyze.com (free to use). There may be other tools/websites that will also display it. The only problem is that you only get the Recovery HR value, and not the change in HR (or what it was when the activity was paused).

    Like others, I prefer the old way. I like the new countdown screen, but it's too many extra button pushes to get there. My ideal solution would be:

    • Option to automatically pop up the Recovery HR screen or not. Maybe pop it up 30s early to show the countdown if configured to do so.
    • Allow the user to save the activity before 2 minutes, but still measure Recovery HR in the background at the 2 minute mark. If configured to pop up, go ahead and show it; if not, be silent.
    • If the user has saved before the 2 minute mark, go back and update the saved file with Recovery HR once it has been measured. Or, maybe just hold onto the activity data for 2 minutes and save in the background after Recovery HR is obtained, giving the illusion of saving early (and allowing the user to go back to the main watch face).
    • Bonus: allow the user to reorder the menu items at the Pause screen.

    As for the argument that a popup changes the behavior of buttons, of course it does. Same thing happens if a smartphone notification comes up while on that screen. That doesn't mean it's necessarily poor UI design, especially if the user wants to see that information as soon as it's available anyway. The bottom line is that an option would make everyone happy - except for those who hate having too many options!

  • 0 over 4 years ago in reply to Garmik

    Pretty cool .. I didn't know that Runalyze save this, thanks for sharing this information, do you know if they also plot it over time? I'll have to check it out.

    Definitely agree with you mainr point giving the users the option to configure this and save it.