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Confused about training status / load.

Former Member
Former Member

So this morning I check my training status & load:

I'm OK at High Aerobic, so during my ride I aimed at filling up the Low Aerobic and Anaerobic bars.
With the Training Effect Gauge as a data field I can see my split between Aerobic and Anaerobic TE as I ride.
But at the Aerobic TE I'm trying to fill up the Low end, not the High.
Is there a data field / any other way that I can see the split between Low and High Aerobic as I ride?
The way things are now I was just eyeballing my heart rate gauge: trying to keep it in the green zone (aerobic 70-80%) or below / trying not to go into orange (threshold 80-90%).
With the Load data screen I could also see my EPOC filling up nicely.

Got 196 which I assumed would be distributed into the TE bars and raise my totals that I checked before the ride: 
Anaerobic = 332. High Aerobic = 1249. Low Aerobic = 808.  
But after my ride things looked like this:

Even though I had a training load of 196 with a 2.2 Anaerobic component, my Anaerobic score dropped from 332 to 286.
Even though I had a 3.9 Aerobic component, my High Aerobic dropped from 1249 to 797.
Only my Low Aerobic score increased: from 809 to 969.

Does anybody have any idea of what's going on here?

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to mcalista

    "i'm not sure of the specifics of the algorithm, but generally zone 3 will still give you low aerobic. Zone 4 is high aerobic, and for anaerobic, you need zone 5. "

    This is exactly what I wanted to know, thanks!
    Unless anyone has other info: Zone 3 is still Low Aerobic.

    So depending on what type of load is advised, I will train as follows:
    * To fill up the Low Aerobic bar, I'll stick to Zones 1, 2 and 3.
    Where time in Zone 3 will presumably fill it up quicker than time spent in Zone 1 and 2.
    * To fill up the High Aerobic bar, I'll spend time in Zone 4 (maybe even Zone 5).
    * Filling up the Anaerobic bar is not a matter of spending time in any zone. It is a matter of doing some high intensity intervals / "spikes".

    With the appropriate data fields I will (during my ride) be able to see how my current Load is filling up and also the Training Effect split between Aerobic and Anaerobic.

    Would be nice to see also the split between Low Aerobic and High Aerobic as I ride (or even afterwards would be nice), but maybe we'll get that in a future update...

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to Dr Phil

    "The algorithms are all based on averages so will/can never be truly personal. Use them for guidance not prescription."

    As I see it, there are a few Levels of training:
    A - Beginners who should just get on the bike as often as they can.
    B - Intermediates who can start playing around with heart rate monitors and generalized training plans.
    C - Advanced who have been doing this long enough to figure out and adjust their own training plans.
    D - Elite (or very serious amateurs) who can afford to pay someone to work out training plans for them. This will generally mean signing up with Training Peaks and from there the coach will see what's up figure things out on your behalf.

    I see myself at Level C. 
    I'm not paying someone else (with a Training Peaks subscription on top of that) every single month. I rather spent a once of amount on a high end Garmin device with built in Firstbeat algorithms.
    I get that it is not a "prescription", but I choose to believe that it is more than advanced enough to take the "real world" info my Garmin provides and from there give personalised "guidance" that will help me to make informed decisions regarding my training.

    "Note also the chronic training load is a rolling number where high loads will have a diminishing effect as time progresses. The lefthand edge of the training load suggests an elevated training load that was decreasing in subsequent weeks."

    Thanks for this.
    So I'll just check the recommendations when planning my ride(s).
    Ater syncing a ride I shouldn't expect the numbers to "add up" so to speak. The algorithm will throw some stuff out, keep some others and adjust it's recommendations accordingly 
    I'll not break my head about it.  ;) 

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to Former Member

    No. My zone 1 goes up to 75%, which is half way through your zone 3, .... you probably noticed that you can set them as you like which is the meaning of "arbitrary". So instead of talking about zone 1 better talk about x-y% HRmax. My zone system is based on the Norwegian Olympic Federation. It makes more sense from a physiological perspective.

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to Former Member

    Ah, I see. You use a different method of calculating your zones.
    For now I'll stick with the basic one as described by Garmin:


    Think I figured out how / where to spend my time to get the results I'm looking for:
    * To fill up the Low Aerobic bar, I'll stick to Zones 1, 2 and 3.
    Where time in Zone 3 will presumably fill it up quicker than time spent in Zone 1 and 2.
    * To fill up the High Aerobic bar, I'll spend time in Zone 4 (maybe even Zone 5).
    * Filling up the Anaerobic bar is not a matter of spending time in any zone. It is a matter of doing some high intensity intervals / "spikes".

  • Zones are not arbitrary, though there exist different approaches as how to define them. The typical definition for a 5 zone model is:

    Z1+Z2: Below Aerobic Threshold (Talking+Nose breathing possible)

    Z3: From Aerobic Threshold to Anaerobic Threshold (Anaerobic Threshold is often measured/known by athletes, it is basically around your 45min max effort average pulse, say your 10km average pulse)

    Z4+5: Above Anaerobic Threshold

    You can use HRmax percentages as starters, but really you should *measure* the Aerobic and Anaerobic Thresholds, by doing a nose-breathing test and a 45-60min all-out effort. The points these thresholds are at are very different between individuals, so guessing via a HRmax% can be very wrong.

    Once you have the Zones, Low Aerobic is Z1+Z2, High Aerobic is Z3, Anaerobic is Z4+Z5.

    Have a look here: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stephen_Seiler/publication/46403553_What_is_Best_Practice_for_Training_Intensity_and_Duration_Distribution_in_Endurance_Athletes/links/0fcfd50ab8a2290995000000/What-is-Best-Practice-for-Training-Intensity-and-Duration-Distribution-in-Endurance-Athletes.pdf

    There they explain different zone models and how they apply. Note the 3 Zone model that is split by just the two thresholds, this is what I am talking about, and I believe this is what determines low aerobic, high aerobic and anaerobic first beat numbers.

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to Fredderic

    Even Seiler states: "...is divided into five somewhat arbitrary intensity zones". And note that zone 1 is going to 72%, in other publications from him to 75% which is very different from the standard Garmin and Polar scale. The point is: it is pointless of talking about "zone 1" without defining it.

  • Yes, doing 5 zones is somewhat arbitrary, since you only have two dividers (Aerobic Threshold [or VT1] and Anaerobic Threshold [or VT2]), hence in the paper I mentioned Seiler mostly talks about the 3 zone model, which, coincidentially, is exactly what Firstbeat also do, with their low aerobic, high aerobic and anaerobic bins. So while I agree that *some* of the dividers of zones are fuzzy, others are quite hard and measurable, Aerobic Threshold and Anaerobic Threshold are measurable values that *should* divide your zones, as training effects are quite different depending on which side of the thresholds you are.

    Point is: Know your two thresholds. Divide your zones as you please, but keep in mind if you are in the green zone (can talk), yellow zone (lactate is steady but talking is harder) or red zone (lactate is not stabilizing anymore). Doing random assignments as per maxhr% is going to net you a poor picture of your training, especially if your thresholds are not close to where the average runner has them (since these maxhr% models are based on runner population averages).

    As I said in this thread https://forums.garmin.com/sports-fitness/running-multisport/f/forerunner-945/204662/training-load-focus-is-based-on-what-heart-rate-zones-are-so-different

    Guessing VT1 from maxHR (or from Anaerobic Threshold) can be very far off individually, e.g. in the book "Training for the uphill athlete" p63 there are three athletes compared, one has his AeT@56% maxHR, the second at 73% of maxHR and the third at 88% of max HR.

    Obviously it makes quite some difference if your "Green Zone" ends at 56%, 73% or 88% maxHR, but for those three athletes, thats where it ends.