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Big Drop in Vo2Max Score

badbri
over 5 years ago

Recently my Vo2Max score on my watch dropped significantly, from 51-52 to 48-49.

I honestly don't put much credence in this actual score (or most of the FirstBeat metrics), as I use Sporttracks to track my Load/Fitness/etc anyway.  But I was pretty curious why it's suddenly scoring me so lowly.

Clues:

I went through a two week period where I didn't do any road runs.  This sent my "Load" metrics into "unknown" and then following that I saw the drop in Vo2Max score.  I don't see how this could be related.  All of my road runs since the gap have been pretty consistent with what I was doing before the gap.

I think I also recall changing my HR zones in Garmin Connect.  It had an old HR max that I don't think is accurate anymore, which I changed to a slightly lower number.  This adjusted all of my HR zones to the point that most of my runs are now in a higher zone than before.  (I don't get that "high aerobic deficiency" message anymore).  I think this has something to do with the Vo2Max rating but I can't confirm.  

I also wear a Vivosmart which I use as my fitness tracker.  When I do a Vo2Max test on that device, it still scores me at 52 which is what I am used to.  It's my 945 that is consistently downgrading me.

Does anyone know what goes into calculating that score?

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to SomeUsername

    I also got really bad HR readings with OHR and latest beta (or maybe also related to temperature?). This could be your problem too. To high HR or switching HR is an idnicator for overtraining/not beeing fit, thus can result in bad v02max rating.

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    I have looked at the VO2 max calculation in detail in a series of posts on my blog.

    The VO2 max estimate is potentially flawed on many levels (see my write up).  Theoretically the "performance estimate" should be solid but it isn't due to small variations in time of day, temp, hydration, altitude, cardiac drift, mental stress etc, that Garmin/Firstbeat can't or do not compensate for.  Even if they could compensate, your temperature/hydration impact on heart rate will be different than mine.

    To date, Firstbeat has never published any peer reviewed study validating the VO2max or performance condition metric for the Garmin line of wearables..  What I have on my blog is the closest you will get. 

    If you know your true VO2 max, it is frustrating to see the wrong figure and see it change when you know it went in the other direction.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to bjrmd

    Frequent reader of your blog, thanks for the good content. :)

    I think the value at is current state is just trash and misleading. The run today at -1C gave me -5 in performance and reduced Vo2Max again. So I will be dead around mid December or at least not able to move any longer. ;)

    The problem with such values is, that if I wasn't aware of it flaw, I sure would go crazy about it. I mean a constant dropping performance indicator isn't a good sign of health.

    On the logical side of the measurements: Sure the raw base performance is reduced, I mean I wear additional cloths and that adds weight. The breathing also don't get much better in cold and dry air. So the values go down but it's the same *** show like in summer. Do a slow run at 36c and you get -10 performance indicator. It feels like there is no normalize method behind it. 

    Fun fact: While replaceing my F5 with 945 just gave my +4 Vo2Max. With both watches HRM-Run was used.

    I for myself changed my health insurance for the next year so that I can measure my Vo2Max on a regular base in a professional manner.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to SomeUsername

    Hi, appreciate the compliment.

    You may want to take a look at something I did on cold weather performance, VO2 max and heart rate.  There are some troubling consequences of hypothermia that are real.  These changes will be worse if you are not cold adapted (which is probably true this time of year). 

    It is disappointing that you can't trust what Garmin says.

    SomeUsername said:
    I for myself changed my health insurance for the next year so that I can measure my Vo2Max on a regular base in a professional manner.

    Smart, if you are interested for fun or fitness it's not that costly and very accurate.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to SomeUsername

    Same here,every run i made last weeks the watch gave me 0 or less than that for performance, its frustrating this .like you said,this kind of things put us crazy, so i made the rigth thing for me,buy a Polar Vantage M ,i run years with polar and never get this kind of issues

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to Tiago78

    performance is just an indicator that compares your current data versus your average data, and 0 is a good value it means you are consistent with last performance, if you are training consistently it's even good!  Vo2 is another completely different story

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    I would not bother with those inconsistent metrics. If you want to know your VO2max go for lab test. Measuring VO2max on regular basis doesn't make much sense. This is not a value that improves with training in similar fashion like FTP or Threshold Pace. Unless you are new to endurance training (or starting a plan "from couch to 5k), I would not expect significant changes in VO2max metric.

    If you make a copy of Trail Run app and rename it to Run, you won't get any PC or VO2 incorrect stats but your Training load will still update. If you want to measure improvements in your fitness, compare your 5k or 10k times, running threshold pace or FTP if cyclist.

    I was quite surprised by how FB algorithm for cycling FTP (they are using HRV and Respiratory rate for calculation) is accurate. Recently doing 2x20m intervals around FTP, I got notification after the session of new FTP which was 1W different than FTP from the test some time ago. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to SomeUsername
    SomeUsername said:
    Welcome in the club, don't know why but since temperature dropped below 10C my Vo2Max followed it down the path 7 points in two weeks. Trend still going on, should hit 0 at the end of the year...

    i joined this club too, but only for running, my cycling vo2max is more or less stable as always! Joy

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    Don't know calculations. My Vo2Max dropped 10% after the watch incorrectly showed a 190 HR when actual HR was about 95, based on manual check, during a fast walk. Watch HR is usually very close to manual check. My max HR for age is about 162, which I rarely approach even during tough runs. Guessing the incorrect max HR of 190 led to drop in Vo2Max. Generally, I find Garmin's Vo2Max is a good relative measure of how well my workouts are going.

  • 0 over 4 years ago

    If you think that's a significant drop, try this: Mine went from 60-64 all the way down to 45, for no apparent reason.  Weird.