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Mixed Firstbeat Workout Messages. Do I rest or go harder?

bc0123
over 6 years ago

Hi all,

I have an odd result on my workout/recovery screens powered by Firstbeat.  I'm getting a message implying I'm working out too hard on one screen, and just barely in the "green zone" on another.  I'm not really sure what to make of it.  I'm using a combination of the Forerunner and an Edge using physio true up.  Any thoughts or suggestions?

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  • 0 over 6 years ago

    I am seeing something similar in the Marq.  I'm wondering if it relates to cycling in the intense heat and humidity we're seeing in Florida.  This leads to (much) higher heart rates per power level, which can be interpreted in several ways.  Yes, the algorithm should pick that up, but perhaps it isn't doing so completely.

     I'm going to try a trainer ride inside tomorrow to try to figure it out.

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    Same for me - Load Focus is out of "focus" :) 

    But the new Load Focus is a monthly figure - where the other is daily based.

    So I think Load Focus will take a while before it gets it right.  But until it gets it right it should not show misleading info.

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    My personal view and from what I've sen (and it's still early days) is if your vo2 drops by 1 points, you become unproductive on that first screen....

    *EDIT* in fact I maybe correct, if you look under the Unproductive headline it says Based on your Cycling VO2 Max Trend...

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to kitenski

    You are correct, every time the VO2max drops, you are in the unproductive zone. This time of the year it may have do do with the fact that the heat is coming

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to snowfree52

    That isn't correct, there's a lot more to it that that. My Vo2Max drops and I don't go unproductive, it depends on the effort level put in and the resulting performance. 

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    can talk to this more but you are comparing 2 different things here. Unproductive/ Overreaching show you are training too hard/ too much and are not benefiting from the extra work. On the left this is looking at your current status. On the right, it's showing a weeks load and it shows you load was way too high but has dropped recently to within your optimal range.

    In order to get out of the unproductive state you need to rest up a bit and mix your workouts between low aerobic/ high aerobic and Anaerobic so the load fits within the boundaries on the bottom left. How often are you running in a week and what is the typical duration/ intensity of those workouts?

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    There's a lot going on here, and I think most of the comments already made are pretty much on point. 

    As others have mentioned, there a 2 different time frames being shown between the data. Your current (acute / 7-day) "Training Load" is within the optimal range for you, based on a combination of your current fitness level (VO2max) and personal training history. That's good. Stay within that range for a few weeks and I would expect that your Training Status will flip to Maintaining or probably Productive before long, assuming of course you are sleeping well, eating smart, and aren't experiencing huge amounts of stress from life, work, or emotional situations.

    Where things are a little off the rails is in your longer term (chronic / 4 week) Training Load patterns. You were well, well above the optimal range for quite a while. It's a bit hard to say, but it's possible that your body hasn't quite fully recovered from that heavy training period.

    Without trying to sound trite or flippant, the 'mixed message' here is the result of two things being true at the same time.

    1) Your current load over the past 7-days is generally optimal, meaning this is the level it would be beneficial to maintain. 

    2) You might benefit from a rest, from a perspective related to a goal of continuously increasing cardiorespiratory fitness.

    I hope that helps, if not let me know!

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to HermanB

    Thank you so much for clarifying!  I'll fill in the real world details below, watch for another couple of weeks, and report back.

    I'm a 44yo masters Cat 1 mountain biker.  The big uptick was a race.  I was absolutely pinned for the race (state champs), 2h race and 1h warmup, and really put in a max effort.  That explains the big spike.  Since, I've settled into a more "routine" regimen, following a trainer road mid volume plan mixed in with fun MTB rides and a travel MTB and road bike vacation last week.  

    My peak CTL this year was 90 (I'll attach TP graphs below), so that gives everyone a comparative metric for my base which really wasn't all that astronomical in the grand scheme of things.  Don't get me wrong, it was a big ATL load, a top 3 on the chart.  Subjectively I do feel recovered from that effort and I'm feeling pressured to train harder for my "A" race (nationals) in 50 days.

    One followup question for   because the response was so helpful, does wearing the forerunner 24/7 influence the overall recovery score in any way.  In other words, does the FirstBeat algorithm take into account the information outside workouts such as resting heart rate, sleep, etc that would be collected?  I abandoned wearing the watch for my Apple watch because I have super skinny wrists and a very low RHR (40).  I found the optical sensor was not accurate, often reading double my RHR.  Not always, but enough I considered the data unreliable.

    For me, the take home message is pay attention only to the 7 day graph (lower right in image above) and (almost) ignore the other graphs.  If I stay in the green for a while the others will catch up.

    Thank you again everyone for the thoughtful replies!

    PMC Graph

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    Where do I find this screen?  I cant find it.  Thank you!

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to bc0123

    "One followup question for   because the response was so helpful, does wearing the forerunner 24/7 influence the overall recovery score in any way.  In other words, does the FirstBeat algorithm take into account the information outside workouts such as resting heart rate, sleep, etc that would be collected?"

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'recovery score,' but regardless the answer to your question is almost certainly no. There is a Recovery Timer which used to be a relatively straightforward interpretation of your Training Effect scores adjusted based on the length of time, if any, remaining on your recovery timer at the start of your workout. With the FR945 that was updated to account for some more meaningful trends in your Training Load data... like acute:chronic workload ratio and special recovery needs following exceptionally difficult (outside your personal norm) workouts.

    But, to be clear, none of the lifestyle monitoring data, like All-day Stress and the derived Body Battery feature, are fed into the performance analytics to automatically adjust recovery times.

    This means that you can wear your Apple watch throughout the day and switch over to your [ superior ;-) ] Garmin watch for training without worrying about a downgrade in the integrity of your performance analysis.