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BREATH FREQUENCY

DaniloDiMarco
over 6 years ago

GREAT new feature in the new 945: BREATH FREQUENCY. It is useful to combine in the analysis with the HR. suggestion Garmin team: At the moment I see it is only available the current breath freqency but not the LAP breath frequency or other levels like this. what about to insert as an improvements?

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    Had some tests with holding the breath. Displayed breath frequency was not correct at all.

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    On a recent very gentle recovery run I checked my breathing around the 4 km mark. I was breathing  4 in/4 out which I made sure to maintain between about 3.5 and 4.0 km, so my respiration rate should be my cadence divided by 8, which is about 22.

    Deriving respiration rate from changes in HR and HRV should theoretically be possible, but I think there might be too much noise for it to work with current technology in an exercise environment.  would you like to comment?

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    It is a potentially useful metric if it was accurate.  I did a detailed comparison with the Hexoskin shirt respiration rate:

    www.muscleoxygentraining.com/.../firstbeat-vo2-estimation-valid-or-voodoo.html

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to Chris_Ffm

    I am not surprised that the 945 did not pick up on the fact you were holding your breath. The respiration rate is derived from the (very) small differences in HR and HRV between inhaling and exhaling. If you are holding your breath and your respiration rate is zero there is no difference between inhaling and exhaling to detect.

  • 0 over 6 years ago

    I would suggest Garmin to add the breath frequency data column in the garmin connect activity sheet. what about ? thank you, Danilo

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to Chris_Ffm

    The reason for this is incredibly interesting, fascinating even.

    I'll skip the time of typing out how respiration rate is derived from HRV data, because this link does the trick. https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-feature/respiration-rate/

    But this, 'holding your breath' issue came up the other day in a webinar we were hosting. The reason a 'held breath' doesn't necessarily register in the HRV data is because what is coded into the HRV data is basically the signal from your autonomic nervous system that it's time to breathe.

    Making a conscious effort to hold your breath doesn't stop that signal from being sent. 

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to CloggyAbroad

    Yep - I came here to post the same thing and a search found this thread, which has sort of died out.

    On the treadmill tonight, I ran with a 2/2 breathing pattern and cadence of 162, so should have had a steady brpm of 40, but instead it varied quite a lot and was averaging down around 32

    Given that most runners will drop into a regular breathing pattern with their cadence (beyond an easy jog) it is trivial for anyone to test the accuracy of the reported respiration rate - I'd be interested to hear what fraction of users it's accurate for?

    - does your reply to the question of holding one's breath above also imply that when a runner consciously forces themselves into a fixed cadence breathing pattern it will be different to that triggered by the ANS, i.e. that the Firstbeat algo will report a different result to what's physically happening?

    If one consciously changes from a 2/2 pattern to say 2/1, would you expect the reported Respiration rate to change state too? 

    I'd really like to be able to see how using different breathing patterns at different run powers affected things like my HR, or just endurance, so having the brpm recorded accurately enough to determine the breathing pattern in use at each section of the run would be great.

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to winfij

    It's my understanding that RSA should reliably track controlled breathing in the sense you are describing. Where it would for sure go off the rails is if you were to do something really strange like hold your breath for a longer period of time while running. That 'time to breathe' signal would just start getting sent faster and faster as your held your breath... at least that's how I understand it. There's lots of material out there on RSA, so other than the math (pretty tricky) and the recording technology there's no real 'secret sauce' going on here. 

  • 0 over 6 years ago in reply to HermanB

    Great, thanks for the reply, I'll be sure to test it out some more.

    I was thinking about it last night and it occurs to me that there may be a sampling rate issue on easy runs - if one only has a HR around 140 bpm and a respiration rate of 40 brpm, then there's only around 3 heart beats per breath cycle (i.e. only 2 R-R intervals), so a high variability in the reported rate could be down to the poor sampling rate.

    Maybe things get better at higher heart rates, given the higher sample frequency?

    Thoughts?