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How Best to Training Plans When Running Indoors?

8662935

I recently purchased my first Garmin watch (Forerunner 265), so I'm having to learn a lot of things about training for the first time. I am following a Garmin Coach plan to train for a 5k, and the plan has a mix of activities, including interval training. Where I live, it is often too cold during this time of year to train outside, so I'm having to figure out how to configure my training for an indoor track. This has sparked many questions.

1. I have used the Indoor Track Run to record base runs (constant pace) around 10:25/mi pace, but with varying degress of success. Often, the watch significantly underestimates my pace to be ~16:00/mi pace. For context, I only have access to a track which is 1/10 mi long. My understanding is that the watch should calibrate to an indoor track after running some number of laps, but is that calibration process assuming a standard 400m track?

2. I have used the Indoor Track Run to record an intervals run (variable pace) with a warmup and cooldown. Again, the watch is unable to accurately update my pace during these intervals. When I begin my fast-paced intervals, the watch continues to show paces around what I was running for the warmup. My suspicion is that this is a consequence of calibrating during the first couple of laps I run in my warmup. Is it possible to get accurate intervals pace tracking on indoor runs?

3. If the underlying problem is the track I'm running on, is it possible to do interval workouts on a treadmill with only the watch? From what I've seen online, my guess is no. Accuracy for runs on a treadmill seem to rely on calibrating to that specific treadmill after your first run by overriding the watch's recorded distance with that of the treadmill, but if running intervals, how is the watch able to distinguish between your "fast" periods and your "slow" periods?

As a result of recording inaccuracies, I'm getting very poor execution scores on my workouts. Beyond the incorrect stats being annoying, I'm also worried that my training plan will no longer adjust correctly to my fitness levels. If none of the above options are possible, what is the best way to continue following the training plan?

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    HI.  I will do my best to answer your questions.  Keep in mind I have not done a running plan with Garmin and what I am sharing is only my opinion and experience with using the 265.

    1.  Yes.  The watch should calibrate to the track.  What I do not know though is if the watch needs the GPS to do the calibration.  In other words the watch is assuming an outdoor track.  And because you are indoors, the watch cannot calibrate.

    2.Yes, I believe it is.  In the past users had to wear a footpod.  Garmin discontinued the footpod though.  My suggestion is to search for an ANT compatible footpod and pair that with your watch.  The footpod will hopefully solve this problem AND the problem for question 1.

    3. Yes, I think it is.  BUT you need to program the treadmill.  The watch will pick up the cadence differences, again though, I think you need the footpod.  The footpod will be needed to distinguish between fast and slow too.

    4. That is a good question.  Can you look at getting a running mat inside and pairing up with a third party like Zwift?

    I am not saying this will solve your problem but I did a google search for footpod:

    https://treadmillwhizz.com/best-foot-pods-for-treadmill/

    https://www.stryd.com/ca/en/store

    Hope this helps.

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    8662935 said:
    1. I have used the Indoor Track Run to record base runs (constant pace) around 10:25/mi pace, but with varying degress of success. Often, the watch significantly underestimates my pace to be ~16:00/mi pace. For context, I only have access to a track which is 1/10 mi long. My understanding is that the watch should calibrate to an indoor track after running some number of laps, but is that calibration process assuming a standard 400m track?

    No I think that's just for outdoor track run, which uses GPS for calibration [*] and assumes a 400m track. [*] either that or it detects that you are running on a known outdoor 400m track in its database.

    How would Indoor Track calibrate your run, given that there's nothing to calibrate against? It would only work if the watch insisted that you press lap every time you run a 400m lap (for example), but I don't think it does.

    8662935 said:
    When I begin my fast-paced intervals, the watch continues to show paces around what I was running for the warmup. My suspicion is that this is a consequence of calibrating during the first couple of laps I run in my warmup.

    No, it's just that the accelerometer just isn't so great at estimating speed.

    8662935 said:
    3. If the underlying problem is the track I'm running on, is it possible to do interval workouts on a treadmill with only the watch? From what I've seen online, my guess is no. Accuracy for runs on a treadmill seem to rely on calibrating to that specific treadmill after your first run by overriding the watch's recorded distance with that of the treadmill, but if running intervals, how is the watch able to distinguish between your "fast" periods and your "slow" periods?

    Just because the treadmill run profile has a calibration feature for the watch's accel, doesn't mean that the watch's accel can only detect one pace/speed at a time.

    Footpods can be automatically or manually calibrated, and they measure a range of speeds.

    Similarly, Garmin chest straps which support speed/distance measurement are automatically calibrated when you run outdoors with GPS, and they measure a range of speeds.

    What calibration does is determine a multiplier factor that corrects the measured speed/distance against the actual speed/distance.

    For example, if you go for a 9 km treadmill run, but your watch records 10 km (using the accelerometer only), when you tell the watch it was really 9 km, that will set a calibration factor of 0.90 / 90%. In the future, all distances/speeds measured by the accel will be multiplied by 0.9. This doesn't prevent the accel from measuring a range of speeds (fast and slow), not just one speed.

    If you own a footpod, you can see (and modify) the calibration factor in settings, but as far as the watch accel goes, the calibration factor is hidden.

    DoctorCool said:
    3. Yes, I think it is.  BUT you need to program the treadmill.  The watch will pick up the cadence differences, again though, I think you need the footpod.  The footpod will be needed to distinguish between fast and slow too.

    That's not true. It sounds like you're saying that the watch alone won't distinguish between different paces indoors, but you can prove this wrong very easily by going for a treadmill run with only the watch (no footpod or chest strap) and noting that the (instant) pace field doesn't just stay at one value for the entire time.

    The watch has an accelerometer which detects 3D motion (similar to a footpod) in order to estimate cadence and speed.

    I bet you are assuming that a runner just stays at constant cadence (say 180 steps per minute) and only varies their stride length as they vary speed, and you think the watch can only detect changes in cadence, therefore it can't detect changes in speed in this case. But again, it's just not true. Try running at a constant cadence of 180 on a treadmill, but varying your speed (which will force you to vary your stride length). You will see that the watch should measure different paces (although again, it probably won't be perfect).

    If you think the watch accel can't measure changes in stride length for running, how do you think a foot pod does it? Foot pods aren't magic compared to an accel that you wear on your wrist. They just happen to be positioned in a better location (on your foot) for estimating your running speed.

    It just so happens that the watch probably isn't the *best* way to estimate speed indoors (although it's pretty good at estimating cadence, provided you swing your watch arm). A footpod will probably be better.

    Some would say that the Stryd footpod is the best way to measure speed on a treadmill (apart from using a sensor that physically attaches to your treadmill), but it's pretty expensive.

    In my experience, both Stryd and the watch are ok when you run a certain way, for a certain range of speeds. Neither of them will match exactly what your treadmill says for speed, but then again, your treadmill itself may not be so accurate when it comes to speed.

    If you have one of the following Garmin chest straps - HRM-PRO, HRM-PRO+, HRM-FIT or HRM-600 - you can use the strap as a source for speed and/or distance indoors (and outdoors too, if you want, but I wouldn't recommend that):

    https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?faq=gYnJvprwBy6cIWl1WTwzr7 

    That might still be better than using speed/distance from the wrist accel, although some people have they're not happy with the results. (If you do any other sports, note that ppl have reported that speed/distance from Garmin chest straps only works for running activities now, as opposed to speed/distance from footpod, which can be used for other types of activities.)

    Fwiw, Garmin has this to say about distance accuracy for indoor activities:

    https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?faq=gBzjv7LHx89pyJMnVtc85A