Forerunner 245: wrong PR extracted from running activity

Thank you for your answer. I have been looking for this option, but can't find it. Does this mean editting the PB? Or the activity?

In pricinple I would prefer a way to repair the activity, leaving the extraction to Garmin. I have been considering backing-up the activity and then trying to trim it a bit to make it end closer to the finish line. If this screws it up, would deleting it and importing the exported file to restore the original, work?

This is one of the many "well hidden" features. It can be changed only from the connect website: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/personal-records

Even after you land on the page it's well hidden... 

You click on the record number and then you can edit it:

Thanks! Worked :-). At least I now have the official time in.

I would still be curious on what went wrong with Garmin and whether this can be fixed, as typically the distance one runs between start and finish is a bit larger than the nominal distance due to not following the optimal patth. The fastest 21.09km in the activity is likely faster that the chip-time.

What I did was create a workout consisting of 3 phases: I started it at the gun-sound, then lapped when I reached the starting line (~0:17 secs into the activity) and lapped again on the finish. Then I finished the work-out after walking another ~70 meters to be really sure the activity contained sufficient length to allow extraction of the fastest 21.09 km. That's why the activity distance is  slightly longer than a HM. This was the result:

The initial 17 secs can be recognized. Also the walking after the finish line is visible. Garmin somehow combines all into the PR, rather than picking the fastest 21.09km. My fastest 21.09km would actually be more than 1 minute faster than the chip time, as I ran 21.34km between start and finish line.

Nothing went wrong, it's working as designed. (Whether we agree with it or not.)

1628607 said:

typically the distance one runs between start and finish is a bit larger than the nominal distance due to not following the optimal patth. The fastest 21.09km in the activity is likely faster that the chip-time.

1628607 said:

My fastest 21.09km would actually be more than 1 minute faster than the chip time, as I ran 21.34km between start and finish line.

This is precisely why Garmin calculates PRs the way it does.

- If you run slightly farther than a given PR distance (e.g. 21.1km), Garmin uses the time for the entire activity. In this case, the PR that Garmin detects should be identical to your chip time, provided you start/stop the activity timer when you cross the start/finish line.

- If you run much farther than a given PR distance, Garmin uses the fastest time for the exact distance

https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/fenix-7-series/413097/discrepancy-in-5k-pb-garmin-vs-strava/1939259#1939259

Garmin's method may be confusing and unintuitive, but it produces the correct PR for races, provided you start/stop the activity timer when you cross the start/finish line.

If you ran your fastest 5k race ever at 25:30, and your watch actually recorded 5.10km, would you say that your true PR is 25:30, or would you say it's something faster than 25:30 (equivalent to the fastest 5k detected within the activity)?

If you want to get the fastest 21.1km (or fastest time for any of several "standard distances", like 400m, 800m, 1k, 5k, 10k, etc), you can use a 3rd party app or service that syncs with Connect, like Strava or runalyze.

Ofc the PRs ("best efforts") that Strava detected for all my races are a bit too fast, because as you said, the recorded distance (and the distance I actually ran) is almost always longer than the actual race distance.

1628607 said:

I have been considering backing-up the activity and then trying to trim it a bit to make it end closer to the finish line

You can trim an activity directly in Connect, without exporting and re-importing it. Idk if that will cause PRs to be redetected tho. It still won't make PRs work the way you want them to.

[https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?faq=y6fK2dqAd34u9R5x54cxH8]

Tanks! This clarifies what happened!

I indeed expected different behavior. My (personal) preferences is actually fastest time on a physical distance. Garmin's way results in a list of numbers with varying meaning: some are reflecting actual physical bests (which I prefer), while others include other racing-skills like efficient starting and path-finding. (Which I'm personally less interested in.) But indeed, this is up to Garmin, and their choice probably resulted from a community that values both numbers :-D.

Next time I'll do the same as this time: start, lap at starting line and lap at finish line, but then keep the watch running for significantly longer. If I understand correctly, that'll make it detect the number that compares best with the other PRs in my list.

1628607 said:

Next time I'll do the same as this time: start, lap at starting line and lap at finish line, but then keep the watch running for significantly longer. If I understand correctly, that'll make it detect the number that compares best with the other PRs in my list.

Ofc that will only work if you also record a lot more distance.

You do you, but personally I wouldn't artificially add a ton of extra time/distance to every race activity just so Garmin detects PRs a certain way.

On the contrary, I prefer my race day activities to match the actual race as closely as possible:

- I start the timer when I cross the start line

- I never pause the timer during the race (naturally)

- I stop the timer when I cross the finish line

If I were you I would just use strava to track exact distance PBs (this happens automatically). You can always manually edit your Garmin PBs to reflect the exact distance PBs.

1628607 said:

Garmin's way results in a list of numbers with varying meaning: some are reflecting actual physical bests (which I prefer), while others include other racing-skills like efficient starting and path-finding.

Yeah, I agree it's inconsistent that Garmin basically mixes two types of PBs in the same list:

- exact distance PBs

- race PBs

Any argument which supports the validity of race PBs would also serve to invalidate exact distance PBs and vice versa, so they probably don't belong together on the same list. Maybe Garmin should've had two completely separate PB lists, like Strava:

- estimated best efforts (this is exact distance personal best that you are looking for, which Strava detects automatically)

- PRs based on race results (these have to be entered manually in Strava, although you have the option of linking a PR to a Strava activity). Worth noting that this feature is only on the website and not the app, meaning estimated best efforts is the feature Strava actually cares about

I would dispute the characterization of exact distance PBs as "physical bests" except in the case where the recorded distance is identical to the actual distance that you ran. Unless you run on a track and use track mode, the recorded distance will almost never be the same as the actual distance that you ran, due to GPS error.

1628607 said:

I indeed expected different behavior

Yeah, this issue kind of reflects how Garmin isn't great at designing features and user interfaces which are intuitive.

Here's an example of where Garmin tries to do the right thing, but it looks wrong to 99% of people.

Since they track two kinds of PRs, they probably should've have separated each kind into a separate list.