Related
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

VO2 Max and hill runs

Iceskating Uphill
over 5 years ago

Hi

I've been looking at buying a 945 or Fenix, but I’m wondering if a 245M would actually cover most of my running needs.

One concern is VO2 max, which is a training motivator for me. I live on top of a big hill, so every run ends with a 10 minute brutal slog back to the top. Is the 245 able to take this into account in its VO2 max calculation given the lack of altimeter? I wasn’t sure if the initial watch figure got corrected on Garmin Connect when it gets better height data, or if it just stays at the watch value. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    I don’t live in a flat area, I’m either going up or down slope. 
    Unless you leave the front door and run up the hill at 5 or 10K pace, on the overall scheme it won’t have a huge effect on your VO2 score. 
    Like you I find the score motivational and pay close attention but bear in mind it’s genetical. We could move to Iten and knock out 150 km a week for 10 weeks, our score will go up but you won’t see like a 10 point jump. 

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago

    I doubt that the 245 (or even 945) takes the elevation data into account when calculating the VO2 max calculation. It will just think that you got slow and your heart rate became elevated for no reason when you run up a hill.

    I can see in my runs that my performance condition when running up hills is often negative.

    From my experience the elevation data from the 645M (like the 945 it has own altimeter) is flawed (but better than the 245). The altimeter uses pressure to calculate elevation, if you go for a long run it is likely that the pressure will change during your run, you might find that hills gain or lose censorable amounts height during your run. The altimeter in the 645M (and presumably 945) is indicative at best. If you do an out and back run with the 645 the elevation should be symmetrical but it rarely is.

    The 245 uses GPS to calculate elevation, the raw data is very poor which is why Garmin 'corrects' it once it is uploaded to Garmin connect. You can turn the elevation corrections on or off in Garmin connect. Without the error corrections my 245 believes that there is a 60M hill on the perfectly flat street where I live! With the corrections the data is better (but still not great) however the watch knows nothing about these corrections in Garmin connect.

    With or without the corrections the bridge that I run up and down is considered flat. I believe that structures like bridges are not included in the calculations.

    From my observations elevation must be very hard to calculate, Garmins competitors have exactly the same limitations and workarounds.

    An interesting question (which I must research) is if the VO2 max ignores the warm up, rest and cool down phases of a structured workout. If it does you may want to create a structured workout to include a cool down phase for the hill at the end of your workout.

     

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to Former Member
    I doubt that the 245 (or even 945) takes the elevation data into account when calculating the VO2 max calculation.

    It does.  It shows in the example graph.

     https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-feature/vo2max-fitness-level/

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 5 years ago in reply to tess

    Interesting, in which case I would put the V02 value firmly in the indicative data category (and ignore it).

    The science behind Firstbeat may be brilliant but in my opinion the 245 is simply not capable of suppling the accurate data (heart rate, elevation, distance, pace, etc) that it needs for its calculations.

    Consider this run (out and back with some doubling back after 20 minutes). Apparently I lose over 170 meters of elevation in less than 90 seconds. When I finish a run the watch doesn't have access to the internet and therefore only has access to the non corrected elevation data when calculating my VO2 max.

    Non corrected elevation

    Non corrected evolution

    Corrected elevation

    Corrected elevation