I would have liked to move from Vivo4 to Vivo5, but it would be like going back to Vivo3

ted360 said:

A lot of people prefer MIP

Garmin doesn't care about these customers anymore, IMO. I happen to know a lot of people who still use a FR230 (some of them are subelite or at least pretty fast), and I don't think Garmin cares about these people either (unless Garmin can somehow convince them to upgrade.)

Going forward, I don't think Garmin will ever admit that MIP has any advantages at all over AMOLED, except for super long battery life, which is why it looks like only Fenix/Enduro/Instinct will have MIP going forward.

I don't blame them, as Garmin users have been complaining about washed-out, dull Garmin screens for 10+ years, and the average person takes one look at a MIP screen and assumes you're using tech from 2004. The problem (from my POV) is I'm not sure if MIP can co-exist alongside AMOLED in the same product segments (e.g. Garmin running watches), unlike say, wired ethernet and wi-fi for computers and gaming consoles. Even though the majority of people use wi-fi for everything, wired ethernet is still built-in for certain types of devices or available as an add-on. Obviously its a bit of a different situation for a watch screen, where we can't simply buy a modular "MIP screen add-on" and swap out AMOLED for MIP at will.

As I said elsewhere, maybe years from now all watches will use MicroLED or something even better, where people can have their cake and eat it too with a bright, colorful display that stays bright/readable for indefinite periods of time. Or maybe someone will invent a magic reflective display which is also bright and colorful.

I just don't see Garmin going back to MIP, same as I don't see Apple or Samsung ever releasing smartwatches with MIP.

I agree and frankly I find the AMOLED screen much nicer.

The time is ripe for this step, in fact the new vivo4 lasted 5/6 days (don't look at the technical data sheet which falsely says 8 days) vivo5 lasts 1 week with AMOLED screen.

The MIP will remain excellent for military use, big adventure trips, long life and for optimized solar charging.

Some friends are already talking about abandoning Garmin because for 300 euros you want a watch that has all the sensors, especially the real-time altitude difference and Vivo4 had a lot of sales because compared to the FR245 it had the altimeter!

The market is saturated and you can find fabulous watches from excellent brands under 200 euros with altimeter and even oximeter and blood pressure monitor.

In my opinion Garmin needs to stop chasing the competition and churning out all these new watches. Venu3 and vivoactive5 are similar and should be merged into a single product as well as Epix and Fenix. Focus better on quality, cost optimization and promotion of metrics and the connect platform (unique strength)

No, they should offer best of both worlds (MIP and AMOLED). I know many people who prefer old school screens so by merging Epix and Fenix they would obviously loose a lot of customers. It doesn't make sense but then again releasing that many generic, almost identical AMOLED smartwatches is pointless and yet they continue to do so.

NicK said:

I agree and frankly I find the AMOLED screen much nicer.

The time is ripe for this step, in fact the new vivo4 lasted 5/6 days (don't look at the technical data sheet which falsely says 8 days) vivo5 lasts 1 week with AMOLED screen.

The MIP will remain excellent for military use, big adventure trips, long life and for optimized solar charging.

I think AMOLED looks nicer in general, but I don't want it in a running watch, because I want to be able to glance at the screen during a hard workout and not do a deliberate wrist gesture or wait for the screen to light up.

My point was that I think Garmin will only say (or imply) that the sole remaining advantage of MIP over AMOLED is battery life, but I disagree.

I've seen others make the point that "AMOLED Garmin watches are great, you just have to get used to a new way of thinking." (Meaning that you have to get used to turning your wrist.)

Meanwhile I see a bunch of threads in the 965 forums like:

- wrist gesture not detected

- screen is too dim in "always on" mode

etc.

"Always on" for AMOLED is kind of a marketing lie, even for Apple. I've tried Apple Watch, and only native apps like Workout are truly "always on" (meaning the screen stays on and gestures like double tap are detected without a wrist gesture.) If I use a 3rd party app like Workoutdoors (which is often touted as giving users functionality similar to a Garmin), the screen goes to sleep after a few seconds (it displays the time instead of the app), and gestures like double tap and twist crown aren't detected by the app, meaning I can't use the app to do common actions like pause, resume and lap without turning my wrist and waiting for the screen to wake up.

5-button AMOLED Garmins are still better in the sense that you can pause, resume and lap activities without looking, but with AMOLED, you lose the ability to instantly glance at data in daylight. Personally, I also run at night a lot, so I have to admit in that scenario, I'd lose absolutely nothing with an AMOLED Garmin.

I also do like truly always on watchfaces, even though I don't *need* to constantly see my HR with per-second updates.

1. My vivoactive 3's battery life had diminished and wouldn't last 4 hours on GPS. I was pleased to see the VA5 released as a replacement until I looked at the specs and saw no barometric pressure. I do a lot of hill running and need it for accurate altitude. I ended up getting a venu2+  (I chose to get a refurb one). In hindsight I should have gone with a forerunner. I think garmins range is too big and confusing now.  I agree with the comments about theMIP screen Vs amoled. The screen on the VA3 was a lot easier to view.

Venu2+ is a great watch for running. Did the same starting from FR645 (FR965 and FR265 are much to big compared to display size, especially FR265 is awful). I was not happy with MIP displays (and I'm still not happy with my Edge) especially at tiwlight (yes, I'm running this time). I think a combination of MIP and AMOLED would be perfect, but obviously not feasible.