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No longer forming Light Network

troutmask
over 4 years ago

My Edge 830 is paired to a radar and a front light.  The radar shows as a seperate radar in sensors and as a light alongside the front light in the light network. 

Until recently this all worked very well,  however...

The Edge says "forming light network " on start up but never stops. I now have to turn on my rear and front lights manually as they no longer function from the Light network. 

The radar works fine. 

I have deleted everything and repaired twice now with no joy. What gives? Has something changed with recent firmware for the edge ?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to StephenMak

    Wrong - went to start and it won't form the light network.  I give up.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    So, I finally got it to work. It worked when I first got the UT800 after several weeks of running the RTL515.  I also have a Stages power meter, and a Wahoo HRM. The UT800 did a software update, and then everything stopped working. I spent quite a bit of time, reinstalled everything twice, and installed, as was suggested here to set the RTL515 as a "light".  This morning, I did what I had done before.  I installed the power meter, the HRM, the cadence (Garmin) that's on another bike, then the RTL515 as a RADAR.  Started it up, and everything worked.  I then set up the UT800 as a LIGHT.  I set the activation profile on the Edge 530, and it worked.  Turned everything off, started everything up again, and got the message that Light Disconnected from Network while the Edge 530 tried to form a network.  Spun the Stages, and then after thirty seconds or less, the disconnected note disappeared, and the lights behaved.  I doubt the Stages connection has anything to do with anything.  I suspect it was just some time that was necessary for the Edge to find the two Varia products.  

    I don't know if this is just me, or if it will work tomorrow, or later, but this worked twice so far, so thrice is a charm.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    I have a edge 530 computer, varia RTL 515 radar/tail light combo, and varia UT800 headlight. Originally bought the 530 and RTL 515 mounted them straight on to the bike paired up to my duotrap then then my HR monitor(garmin also) then I paired the RTL 515 all directly from the bike everything went flawless the RTL 515 was set to auto from the light network was all plug and play zero issues. I had a manual headlight at the time with no connectivity so that was my setup.

    the UT 800 arrived a week later same thing I mounted it underneath my edge computer into the same mount with the provided attachment and paired up formed light network instantly plug and play got rid of the extra mount for the temporary headlight off of my handlebars the UT800 was set to auto from the network as well, life was peachy zero issues garmin rules!!!

    400+ miles later I was flipping through the 530 and saw there was a software update for the UT800 headlight so I clicked on it couldn’t connect to light... ok, go pull the light off the bike come back inside, cannot connect to light 3 or 4 tries later it connects update goes through “waiting for light to restart” failed could not find light, could not start light network... go pull the RTL 515 off of the bike come back inside... tried 6 million ways from hell to get these components to connect and nothing next move was to throw everything garmin in the trash can and start over with something else.

    I went and put everything back on the bike and plugged everything in to charge, clear my head and fight it tomorrow.

    Unplugged everything from the chargers RTL515 and UT800 were flashing blue(like normal) turned on my 530 computer once it booted up it found the duotrap and HR monitor instantly cleared a few weather alerts, light network formed instantly lights came on in auto to their daylight strobes like nothing ever happened. I cycled through the light network tested the lights from the computer everything was perfect again like indeed nothing ever happened.

    I then removed the lights from the network then reinstalled them all while sitting on the bike with the network reading all other sensors... again flawless installation light network formed instantly lights went to auto all test functions worked lights were in day time strobe time to go crank out a ride.

    if you have your computer(network) on your bike setup with multiple sensors/monitors/lights/radars or whatever then for whatever reason the edge 530 wants to see them all for its boot up sequence. If you take your lights and computer and all to a bench and it does not see one of the sensors in its sequence then the computer and the components go haywire and come short of smashing them all with a big F’in hammer just for the satisfaction then nothing that you do will work.

    wake up all of your sensors monitors lights radars if you have garmin lights/radar like me make sure they’re flashing blue whatever speed/cadence/power sensors roll your bike turn the cranks whatever to wake those up but your HR monitor on and THEN turn on your garmin 530... it will see all of its (your) wonderful toys it will boot up and you will have zero issues... go ride 

    it’s a network after all if it can’t see components in the network for whatever reason it just gets stuck on stupid... some glitch in the software apparently

    keep everything together, do it right on the bike wake everything up then boot up the computer that’s the way it is that’s the way these instruments play with each other.

    hope this helps.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to 5379086

    My experience was remarkably similar.  Painful.  The software update to the UT800 for me was the downfall.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    The common thread in ALL of these comments is the introduction of a Varia RTL515 into the ANT+ network.  The problem lies with the RTL515.  The 515 disrupts the ANT+ network communications.

    Two solutions:

    1. Disable the Varia RTL 515 as a light in the light network AND boot the Edge head unit with the RTL 515 hard powered off, then power up RTL 515 and manually adjust light mode.
    2. REMOVE ALL SENSORS, add RTL 515 as first sensor, add other lights and sensors.


    My setup is

    • Edge 1030 Bontrager
    • Varia Vision
    • Garmin HRM1G heart rate strap
    • Bontrager Interchange Speed sensor
    • Bontrager Interchange Cadence sensor
    • Garmin HL-500 headlight
    • Garmin TL 300 tail light (left)
    • Garmin TL 300 tail light (right)
    • Garmin Varia Light Remote
    • Garmin RTL 515 Varia Radar

    The first day that I added the 515 radar, under Edge OS 11.10.0.0, the Edge struggled to form a Light network.  When it did finally form a network, the network was experiencing periodic disruptions every 3 to 4 seconds.  I observed the disruptions as interruptions in the day flash pattern of my HL-500.  It would flash 5 times, then skip two flashes and flash 5 times again.  This pattern repeated and sometimes there were 6 consecutive flashes.  Truthfully, this interrupted flash pattern is slightly more visible than a steady flash interval, but what is important was to see that the RTL 515 was disrupting the Light Network about every 3 to 4 seconds.

    Since that time, I have only achieved a stable Light network one other time with the same disrupted day flash pattern.  Most of the time, the Light Network completely fails to form when the 515 is on.

    If I have the 515 POWERED-OFF (no blinking blue or purple status light), then the light network will form almost instantly.  But if I power up or wake up the Edge when the 515 is powered up, all hell breaks loose—The Light Network never forms and the Edge keeps trying.


    One solution I have found is to disable the light sensor portion of the 515 leaving the Radar sensor active and manually adjusting the light mode.  Booting the Edge must (as others have noted) must still be done with the 515 hard powered off.  The 515 can only be powered up after the Edge boots and has attached to all sensors and formed the lighting network.

    1. Add ALL sensors in any order with RADAR hard powered off (press and hold radar power button for 4 seconds, make sure blue light is NOT blinking)  Note, the RADAR will interfere with the discovery of other sensors, so it MUST be powered off.
    2. Settings > Sensors > Add Sensor > Search All > Show More > Select All > Add
    3. Settings > Sensors > Lights > Headlight, Taillight, etc. > verify battery status is shown > tap each new light > Light Mode > Day Flash
    4. Tap Edge power button to put Edge to sleep—Lights should turn off
    5. Wake Edge (Short push of power button)
    6. Light network should form within about 15 seconds
    7. Observe Day-Flash is un-interrupted and flashes two flashes per second with NO missed flashes
    8. Power-on 515 only into pairing mode (press power for 3 seconds) purple light should blink rapidly (pairing mode)
    9. Settings > Sensors > Add Sensor > Light > Check-mark Radar > Add
    10. Allow light network to finish forming
    11. Observe disrupted Light Network with missed day flashes every 3 to 4 seconds.
    12. Tap Edge power button to put Edge to sleep (should power down lights)
    13. Purple light on 515 will still be flashing—5 short presses (less than one second each) on 515 power button will power the light up, then cycle back through the light modes and turn off the light—importantly, the network light should now double blink blue every 7 seconds (normal network mode) 
    14. Wake the edge (short push of power button)
    16. Sensors > Lights > Radar > tap "Enable" slide switch—this disables the light (leaves the RADAR part of the 515 enabled)
    17. power-off the 515 (press and hold power button)
    18. restart Edge 1030
    19. let the light network form
    20. Settings > Sensors > Lights > Verify battery icons at right for each light show charge level
    21. Home > Road (or other profile) > center tap display to bring up turn-signal overlay
    22. Test left and right turn-signals
    23. center tap or time-out back to profile data display page
    24. power-up 515 (press and hold power button)
    25. short press 515 power button to set to day flash
    26. wait for Light Network to re-form
    27. center tap profile data page to bring up turn signal overlay
    28. verify left and right signals are working
    29. Light network will function WITHOUT disruptions at 3 to 4 second intervals and day flash will on lights will run without missing any flashes of the 2 flash per second normal flash rate
    30. Power off Edge—Lights should turn off except Radar
    31. Power off 

    Basically, the RTL 515 has a defect in its ANT+ network stack which prevents it from playing nice with any other lighting devices.  The software defect is in the new 515, and has been there from the beginning.  Garmin has yet to patch the 515 for this bug.

    Second solution which was suggested by others is adding the RTL 515 as the very first sensor of ALL sensors.

    1. Remove ALL sensors from Edge (Settings > Sensors > Three-Line-Menu > Remove > Select All > Check-mark > Remove Sensors? > Check-mark )
    2. Hard Power-off all lights (press and hold power button for 4 seconds on each light AND also the 515 Radar)  There should be no blinking blue lights
    3. Power-on 515 only into pairing mode (press power for 3 seconds) purple light should blink rapidly (pairing mode)
    4. Settings > Sensors > Add Sensor > Light > Check-mark Radar > Add
    5. Allow light network to finish forming
    6. Settings > Sensors > Lights > Network Options > Light Beam Activated > Device Power Up
    7. Settings > Sensors > Lights > Radar (with battery status icon on right) > Light Mode > Day Flash
    8. Tap Edge power button to put Edge to sleep (should power down lights)
    9. Purple light on 515 will still be flashing—5 short presses (less than one second each) on 515 power button will power the light up, then cycle back through the light modes and turn off the light—importantly, the network light should now double blink blue every 7 seconds (normal network mode) 
    10. Power-on all remaining accessories and lights to pairing mode (two second press for HL-500 and TL-300 lights)
    11. Wake the Edge (short push of power button)
    12. RTL 515 should start day-flash
    13. Settings > Sensors > Add Sensor > Search All > Show More > Select All > Add
    14. Wait for Light Network to Form (about 15 seconds)
    15. Settings > Sensors > Lights > Headlight, Taillight, etc. > verify battery status is shown > tap each new light > Light Mode > Day Flash
    16. Tap Edge Power button to put Edge to sleep—Lights should turn off
    17. Wake the Edge (short push of power button)
    18. Light network should form within about 15 seconds
    19. Observe Day-Flash on other lights is interrupted about every 3 to 4 seconds (Light network disruption caused by RTL 515)
  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to V.Cordrey

    Thank you for posting these steps (notably the SECOND solution).  I very much appreciated them.   

    Coincidentally I just received an RTL515 as a warranty replacement for my RTL510 that would no longer hold a suitable charge.  I spent about an hour earlier today fighting with my Edge 530 in getting the light network to properly form.  It was way too much aggravation.

    But then I ran across your steps.  I have four bikes' worth of sensors added to my Edge so I was NOT thrilled at the idea of removing them all (the Edge 530 does NOT have a mass delete of sensors, so I had to remove each one individually) and re-adding each one, especially the added work of each one having a manual wheel size for the speed sensor that had to be saved.

    Since adding the RTL515 first and then all others, it does seem that my light network of both the Garmin front light and RTL515 is now a) forming very fast and b) operating without interruption or issues.    I will do some longer rides this weekend to really feel better about it, but it does seem you were spot-on with both your assessment and solution.

  • 0 over 3 years ago

    Quick fix to this problem : Make sure all your sensors are in reach. Although it says "Forming light network" mine only worked when I brought the HRM in reach.

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to V.Cordrey

    Thanks!

    regarding solution 2 adding radar first…if I do this will the pairings stay for future cycles of powering the edge 530?

  • 0 over 3 years ago in reply to 1765427

    Yes, the pairings will remain, however as noted by jcjollant, the network stability is... fragile.  The network will operate for a while, and will show the interrupted pattern, but you will also likely get complete failures after some time and one or more of the lights will drop out of the network.  Basically, once you have a sufficient disruption (like stepping away from your bike for a while and having the HRM or other sensor become unreachable, the network will struggle to re-form.  It will often simply not find one or more of the other lights.

    You will get a somewhat less fragile network by disabling the lighting portion of the RTL515 but leave the radar in operation (Solution 1 above).  It is often necessary to power-off the radar when you return to your bike after a cafe stop in order to get the lighting network to re-form properly.

  • 0 over 1 year ago

    I have been struggling with all my sensors and lights for long days after I received RTL515 as a gift recently. Now I am blinking my eyes reading a number of messages written on the Internet by people having the same issues. 

    Garmin, are you joking? I am seriously considering giving up, sending all this crap back to the shop, or selling this to someone unlucky to buy these things from me, and starting to use the simplest possible solutions. Are you seriously not able to solve this type of issue? I am really scared when thinking that airplanes are equipped with devices made by you...