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Same start & stop points on a loop route?

ZillaG
over 5 years ago

I think (not sure) that part of my mountain bike navigation problem is I created a loop whose start point is same as the stop point (hence a loop). I think because of this, when i start navigating at my start point, the 830 thinks that I've already finished my ride since that is also my stop point, so it doesn't navigate me anymore? Is this right? If so, what's the trick so 830 doesn't do this? Thanks.

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    This is an ancient problem.

    The trick is to place the endpoint short.

    That is, you want the start point closer to where you load the course.

    Another trick is to load the course after (or closer to) the start point.

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    The moment you ride over the end point the course is considered finished, even if it's happening at the beginning.

    Therefore, use dpawlyk's tricks.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to 666_Lange

    It wouldn't be hard to have the device pick the start point.

    1- determine that the two points are close together.

    2- determine that your position is close to both.

    3- then, pick the start point.

    Picking the end point is never the right choice.

    So, it can be even simpler. If the end point (or any point in the last 200 feet) is picked, pick the start point.

    It's odd that this has always been a problem.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to dpawlyk

    I wonder why sport GPS devices don't fix this. It's very common to want to navigate a loop, where start & stop points are in the same location. Code would be "if rideTime <= 5mins; ignoreEndPoint();" where the "5mins" part is programmable. Right?

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to ZillaG

    It's a mystery!

    It just needs to use the remaining distance from the closest point.

    Every track point in a course has a distance associated with it. The Garmins already use that to determine how much more of the course is left (since it also knows the course length).

    if remaining_distance <= 200 feet and close-to-start-point; then pick-start-point.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to dpawlyk

    Actually I would think it would be simpler to just check the current accumulated distance.  If it's < 200m then we probably are just starting.

    Over the years this has been one of the most annoying bugs in my opinion.  Seriously to be with a group of 12-15 people on the road and half of them are fidgeting with their Garmins is not a good thing.

    That said, recently it seems to be better.  I usually either get the prompt that I'm close to the start and do I want to start the ride or the prompt asking if I want to navigate to the start.  If I answer yes to the first one or no to the second one, it seems to work.  In the case that I don't get the prompt or don't see it, it usually screws up.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DuaneHebert

    "Actually I would think it would be simpler to just check the current accumulated distance.  If it's < 200m then we probably are just starting."

    It's the really the same amount of effort (there's an extra subtraction in my approach).

    If you start the course 100 meters into it, you would want it to start at that point (rather than at the stop). Your approach would break this reasonable behavior.

    The units (generally) have no problems picking up a course anywhere along it.

    The problem is the case when the end point is chosen (not other points along the course).

    Picking the end point is never correct, 

    =========================

    "That said, recently it seems to be better.  I usually either get the prompt that I'm close to the start and do I want to start the ride or the prompt asking if I want to navigate to the start."

    This is something else, entirely. None of the units have a problem with this.

    The issue is when the end point happens to be closer to where you start the course.

    In this situation, the units can pick the end point (which is useless) and it's annoying to have to get it to pick the right point.

    If the unit showed an prompt to avoid doing that useless thing, people would likely not be complaining.

    =========================

    "Over the years this has been one of the most annoying bugs in my opinion.  Seriously to be with a group of 12-15 people on the road and half of them are fidgeting with their Garmins is not a good thing."

    The route planners can generally easily keep this problem from happening.

    They just need to make the route a little bit shorter.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to dpawlyk
    dpawlyk said:

    "That said, recently it seems to be better.  I usually either get the prompt that I'm close to the start and do I want to start the ride or the prompt asking if I want to navigate to the start."

    This is something else, entirely. None of the units have a problem with this.

    The issue is when the end point happens to be closer to where you start the course.

    In this situation, the units can pick the end point (which is useless) and it's a pain to get it to pick the right point.

    If the unit showed an prompt to avoid doing that useless thing, people would likely not be complaining.

    With the 830, this seems to work.  It did not work with my 800 nor  It mostly would never prompt and always try to route you back to the beginning unless you tell it to start the route a couple of hundred meters into it.  

    Suggesting the users modify their routes to accommodate a Garmin doesn't make sense to me.  Members not using Garmins don't have this issue.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DuaneHebert

    You need to modify the routes to accommodate a Garmin because Garmin can't make it work the way it works now.

    I make all my loop routes with an end point out of the way of the start point. If a loop route goes over the same road in the beginning and at the end, i set the end point there just before the loop joins itself. Garmin even had problems when a loop crossed itself (figure 8), it would sometimes just shortcut part the figure 8.

    It's true that devices from other brands do not have that problem but then they work differently compared to a Garmin. They don't pre-calculate the route like a Garmin does. The algorithms used to calculate a loop route are the same as going from A to B. The moment you reach B, the GPS has done it's job. As long as Garmin keeps the idea that a route needs to be calculated from the beginning to the end, it will not solve the issue.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DuaneHebert

    "Suggesting the users modify their routes to accommodate a Garmin doesn't make sense to me.  Members not using Garmins don't have this issue."

    It's not a modification that really impacts those other users. They'd probably not even notice it.

    Garmins are still likely the most commonly-used device.

    "Over the years this has been one of the most annoying bugs in my opinion.  Seriously to be with a group of 12-15 people on the road and half of them are fidgeting with their Garmins is not a good thing."

    Given that there's an easy fix, this makes no sense.