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Understanding Strava/Garmin Live Segments (Former Wahoo User)

DerDembo
over 5 years ago

I am trying to understand Strava/Garmin Live Segments on the Edge compared to my old Wahoo Bolt.

This used to be my Bolt workflow:

- plan route in komoot

- load route via komoot integration/app on the Bolt

- (optional) load structured training

- decide whether I want Strava Live Segment warnings despite / in addition to structured training

- ride!

Of course I don't want to see Live Segment warnings during interval workouts, but when following e.g. a 4h endurance ride (stay in given power range), chasing a PR here and there helps to keep me entertained. Wahoo lets me select whether I want the Live Segments to trigger always / not when following a workout / never. All this is independent of following a course. Convenient and easy.

Now there is Garmin. Firstly: Is there a way to get Live Segment warnings/triggers when following a workout at all?

When not running a workout, I understand that it still is not trivial to get Strava Live Segment warnings when navigating (why?). The only successful (n=1) workflow I've had is

- plan the route in Strava (annoying, since my routes currently live in komoot)

- load the route to the Edge via the build-in Strava app

- ride!

What hasn't worked for me is:

- push a Garmin Segment to the Edge

- load a course via the komoot CIQ-app

- ride!

But that might have been me failing to correctly upload the Garmin Segment and/or telling the Edge to actually use Garmin instead of Strava Live segments (do I have to do this? If so: how?)

I've read some people claiming that planning a route on the Garmin Connect website allows for Garmin Live segments to be triggered when navigating a course - can anybody confirm this?

So as you can see I am pretty much totally and utterly confused by the limitations and interconnections between Live Segments (Strava and/or Garmin), navigating courses and following workouts on Edge devices. Heck, I don't even know whether starred Garmin segments are automatically pushed to the Edge and what happens to the segment data on the Edge if I hit new PRs. Reading the "Understanding Climb Pro" article here really helped me to understand this feature so maybe a seasoned Edge user can give me some pointers on how to actually use Live Segments.

Cheers

Chris

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    For Garmin segments to work when following a course the course needs to be download from Garmin Connect. Garmin Connect overlays your segments to find matches with the course and inserts them into the course file so that they will get executed when you run the course. Course files from other sources will not have the segments embedded in them.

    For courses from other sites you would need to import them into Garmin Connect and then export them from Garmin Connect.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to aweatherall

    Thanks, that gets me one step closer to understanding the problem.

    Unfortunately that means, if you are planning through a non-Strava third party app with the intention to download the planned course via a CIQ app you are out of luck with regards to segments.

    Just in case if you happen to know the answer: Aside from sending a Garmin Segment to the Edge: Is there anything else I need to do to make the unit aware of Garmin segments? Will Garmin and Strava segments work in tandem?

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DerDembo

    It is an either or case when it comes to segments. You either pick Garmin Segments, which are free and the default or Strava segment that require a Strava subscription.

    Which ever one you pick deletes the other type of segments that may be on the unit.

    So in terms of getting segments when following a course the course needs to be authored on the site that matches your segment choice. Garmin Connect for Garmin Segments or Strava for Strava segments. For Strava the course MUST be downloaded to the Edge via the built in app on the Edge for the segments to get included.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to aweatherall

    Thank you once again for helping me out here.

    A follow-up question regarding the switch of the segment source: Let's say I open the Garmin Connect web site and change my segment provider from Strava to Garmin: Would that delete all Strava segments from my Edge the next time the Edge syncs? At least in theory? And should I then be able to see the synced segments on the Edge?

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DerDembo

    Switching will send a delete all segment message to the Edge and send a request to queue up all the segments for download from the selected source.

    It might take 2 syncs to complete everything, but it should delete all your existing segments and replace them with the segments from the new preferred provider. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    I find with live segments on my 530 that the time in front / behind is very inaccurate and varies wildly thus making using them less motivating. I guess this is due to the inferior Sony GPS chip that they have. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago

    Sorry for the hiatus - I finally found some time to test a few things.

    I started with testing Strava Live Segments:

    Test #1: Simply ride and encounter a segment: 

    Result: Segement is triggered 

    Test #2: Follow a course created in Garmin Connect:

    Result: Segment is not triggered

    Test #3: Follow a course created in komoot and downloaded by the komoot CIQ app: 

    Result: Segment ist not triggered

    Test #4: Follow a course created in Strava that contains the complete segment and is downloaded by the build in Strava CIQ app:

    Result: Segment is triggered

    Test #5: Follow a course created in Strava that contains only the start of the segment and is downloaded by the build in Strava CIQ app:

    Result: Segment is not triggered

    Test #6: Follow a workout without navigating a course: 

    Result: Segment is not triggered

    Test #7: Follow a workout and a course created in Strava that contains the complete segment and is downloaded by the build in Strava CIQ app:

    Result: Segment is triggered

    So in conclusion: 

    • Strava live segments are available during navigation only when the route is created or transferred to Strava and downloaded via the CIQ app
    • Strava live segments can be triggered during workouts but one has to follow a course created in Strava (as above) 
    • Even when following a course created in Strava segments are only triggered when the segment in its full length is part of the course

    The one remaining question is: Will my PRs and the segment leaders be updated if I follow a course created in Strava that resides on my Edge? Or to rephrase the question: Do I have to re-download the course from from Strava to get the updated segment times (provided, that the segment times are up to date on the Edge)? 

    I kinda miss the "it just works" approach of the Wahoo: Simply select wether you want to get segment notifications always / only when not following a workout / never but I guess I can live with the Garmin way of handling things (unless the segment times are backed into the course only during the import by the CIQ app - it would suck to re-download courses simply to get updated segment information during a ride). 

    I might re-run the experiment using Garmin segments if I actually manage to switch to Garmin segments. So far, after performing the switch in Garmin Connect (web) has no effect on the segment data stored on the Edge. 

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DerDembo

    The segments are stored in their own files and will update when you sync to get the latest leaderboard data. The course file just makes reference to the segment UUID for those segments.

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to DerDembo

    A Strava live segments ‘on/off’ switch would be really useful on the Edges/forerunners/Fenix’s. 

    Some days I may like to go off route or deviate slightly from a workout to try for a PR and other days I may want to stick to the plan...

    is it difficult for Garmin to implement via a software update?

  • 0 over 5 years ago in reply to 4531484

    You can do that under the activity profile settings. You can just toggle segments off.