1030+ gradient issue II

> A delay of 1-3 seconds is acceptable in practice. For longer delays, remove this information from the display. It's useless.  

Indeed. Their "expectations" must be really low especially since other devices (karoo, wahoo units, the older garmins) did not exhibit this behavior. I'm assuming the altitude lag in the .fit file will also get the same "it's within our completely arbitrary specs" response. This is beyond absurd.

Garmin-Blake, can you explain to me how wahoo bolt does not have this delay in the altitude graph, not even a second of a delay? At least fix the data in the file, or provide additional real time, non-smoothed data so we can do so ourselves, if you're not willing to fix the gradient real time display.

Completely Agree. 1-3 seconds is acceptable. I can not accept 10-15 seconds are within Garmin expectations. It's useless.

Garmin Edge 1030 (non plus version) was fine also.

How fast do you think it is actually possible to detect a gradient change?

If you assume that to detect a gradient change you need to gain one meter in elevation (seems sensible to me due to trying to reduce measurement errors & smoothing of altitude data) then:

if you are riding up a 10% grade at 8mph you will take 2.81 seconds to ascend a meter.  If you are riding up a 3% grade at 15mph it will take you 4.97 seconds to ascend a meter.

It may be impossible to change the gradient in one to three seconds.  You may take longer to ascend a meter than you actually think.

Short changes of grade may not be picked up due to noise on the altitude measurements.  If you look at the output of a pressure sensor it won't be a smooth signal.

Earlier devices apparently could change the gradient display more quickly but was it more or less accurate?  I don't know.  You may like a quicker change of display because it looks better but if you found out it was less accurate would you want it then?  Just because a metric changes value more quickly doesn't mean it is a better measurement.

To make a qualified judgement on Garmin's stated acceptable delay times really you would need to see the detailed reasoning behind that.  There may be technical issues resulting in it.  There may not be.  I have no idea.  Until you know the full facts it is hard to say whether it is reasonable or not.

So I don't understand why it is possible to display a continuous graph of altitude on the 1030+ display when it is formed (according to you) from very inaccurate values. It is definitely better to have an inaccurate value than to have +6% on the display after 100m after overcoming the peak and descending the hill.

I never said altitude data from the pressure sensor is inaccurate.  I said the output will need smoothing as there will be noise on it and all sensors will have some measurement errors.  Overall pressure sensors can produce accurate elevation data but you have to remember there are factors that will degrade the accuracy such as the weather changing, poor calibration, a bad part.

To be honest I don't know how these things work internally.  I was just putting some ideas out there on why very quick changes in numbers may not always be possible.

Seeing a positive gradient value when you have been descending is definitely not great.

The problem is in the delay in the altitude data - and this is reflected in the altitude chart shown by the 1030+ in real time while riding.

What that reflects is that something is wrong.

• In Edge 1030 (non plus) they are using Bosch 280 pressure sensor with relative accuracy +-1meter. and It works relatively well (I had it during 2 years).
• Now with Edge 1030 (plus) they are using Bosch 380, with relative accuracy +- 50 cm .

So changing the barometric sensor to a more accurate one reflect a bigger deviation and delay in data shown.

Something is not working well. Well is a software issue or hardware issue, but clearly looking at the data is not right.

As shown in the other thread, Garmin's competitor's products and older Garmin products appear to be able to adjust more quickly.  I'm disappointed in Garmin's response on this.  While 10 to 15 seconds may be acceptable to Garmin, it is not acceptable to me.  My immediate family literally owns thousands of dollars worth of Garmin devices, I will thinking very carefully about buying another Garmin device if this is the quality level they hold themselves to. 

But is changing quickly accurate?  Is the grade display really that important to you?  I have never used it on any Garmin device I have owned.

If you bike in a place that isn't flat, it is pretty important. There is a big difference between climbing a 5% grade vs. 10% vs. 15%