Instinct 2X for RowErg and SkiErg: questions

I have a 2X and row regularly on my C2. Use Ergdata. There are multiple ways to connect, each with pros and cons (as you note).

1. Yes. It contributes to training load and status even if you use Ergdata to C2 log to Garmin. You can also connect it with ANT FE-C. I tried both before settling on the former. ANT FE-C has two issues: It doesn't get things into the C2 logbook and it doesn't handle intervals right.

2. Yes, including via C2

3. Yes.

4. Correct - No. Rationale is almost correct: It is done via running or cycling with a powermeter or a few select pairings (e.g. Zwift). C2 data is high quality and can hopefully be added. I have requested it. C2 certainly has done some of the research relating to VO2max and 2k rows.

The question you didn't ask: You can put the watch in HR transmit mode; it can connect to the erg via ANT or BTLE. Both work. It does an OK job, but I have had problems relative to a chest strap. Incidentally, you could connect the watch to the erg via ANT FE-C and the chest strap to the watch and ... etc.

PS - Specifically, when the 2X is providing HR data to the erg, it sometimes gets "stuck" at a low heart rate (e.g. 70's when it's really 130+). Pausing, tapping the watch to let it 'catch' the actual heart rate works, and then it is good and accurate from there out. I think it get's tricked by a multiple of the stroke rate into believing HR is not going up when it is.

Thanks for the infos AnonJohn !

The fact connecting via ANT FE-C doesn't push into c2 logbook is not an issue for me, as I plan to keep on using ErgData/ErgZone on my smartphone for that.

Connecting via ANT FE-C not handling intervals right: is this related to rest intervals ? Power is stuck to the last value before the rest interval starts) ? Or are there other issues ?

So if by simply pushing data from c2 logbook to Garmin I do get Training Effect, Training Load and Training Readiness then I see little reason to log the activity on the 2X at the same time, no ? It doesn't add anything, right ?

One thing I was planning to try is to log on the 2X just to see the HR recovery time/rate at the end of a session: the PM5 just stops recording at the end while on the Garmin I could let the recording go on for a few mins. But no big deal.

Last point: as HRM I use a chest strap with ANT so I don't need the onboard HR sensor (we all know for some activities it's not that good). And I don't need the watch to broadcast: the HRM ANT can be seen by both the PM5 and the watch.

Hi - I went the same way, stopping ANT FE-C and just using the logbook. Avoids double entries on the Garmin side (and double counting on training load etc). Simplified things a bit since I am likewise committed to the logbook.

Yes - rest intervals. I saw it mainly in heart rate (and thus calorie and load) being stuck to the last value. Probably the same with power.

Yes - just push the data! I had once hoped that using the ANT FE-C approach would get training status, but it doesn't, so there's no point. You get everything else nicely integrated. No value add to using the 2X log.

That's a good point on HR recovery time. I have used that in rowing. It works well on the watch and (as you say) is not in the C2 data. You can even connect the watch to the chest strap (and have it connected to the PM at the same time) and then get an accurate number. I miss that now that you mention it! It's actually better than what you suggest; there is a special mode to do a 2 min HR recovery calculation. You stop the workout, go down the menu to that, and sit still while it measures. Then it gives you the final number.

Bottom line: I love the watch, but it is at its strongest for running, works well for integrating multi-sport, and has cool features such as the training metrics you mention. HRV and training readiness work quite well IMHO. I think with just a little work it would be brilliant for rowing. Maybe Garmin will get there ...

Hmm, the HR recovery feature looks neat, I was planning to use the lap button at the end of the session just to have 2 extra minutes of logging, but as you said, the provided feature is even better.

Maybe I'll only log on the watch my long steady state rowing sessions (typically I do two of them per week, 1h one and a half-marathon ~1h30) just to be able to see the HR recovery, as they are not intervals it should work OK. Hopefully the double counting is sorted out when one deletes one of the two logs, right ?

Anyway, I'm now sold on a 2X, just waiting for Balck Friday or a good 2nd hand. Thx !!

No problem at all to delete the 2nd workout. That will work well. A half marathon / week! Awesome ... I aspire to one of those a year.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll get a deal (I did!)

One final question: what's the benefit of logging a RowErg session as Indoor Rowing activity instead of a generic Cardio activity without connecting the 2X to the PM5 ? I don't need all the rowing specific stats (as I already have them in the c2 logbook) so if by simply logging with the 2X (only connected to my chest HRM) I still get Training Load & Effect & Readiness, that may be interesting.

Interesting question. I don't think it buys you anything, but it might. Haven't tried, but some thoughts:

1. You get the TL,TE,TR from importing from C2 logbook into Garmin. That gets Garmin the "best" data. That's may or may not be the same as "the data that Garmin can make best use of". It could be that Garmin makes better use of the generic Cardio data. It did not appear to me that there was any real training model difference between imported C2 data and Garmin rowing activity data (when both had heart rate data from the chest strap). But I wasn't scientific.

2. Using the indoor rowing activity will let Garmin do things like count strokes. It's reasonable at that. So in principal it should have more useful data than the cardio only activity. See caveat above!

3. Each Garmin activity has some tweaks for what they make available on menus and what they log. I think both Cardio and Indoor rowing have HR recovery. Accelerometer stroke counts is an example. Can't speak to whether there are any other material differences in the data stream. Tend to think not as I assume the data model for cardio is very similar.

4. The Garmin ecosystem does categorize activities in groups. So you could use Cardio to put these workouts somewhere other than "Gym & Fitness Equipment". Maybe. If that were useful to you in analysis.

Thanks ! 2X incoming, I'll try this stuff out.