Backup current firmware possible?

I found this in another thread (source: forums.garmin.com/.../1915317). So the way I understand it, only apps installed from the store are in that hidden filesystem. If you have the RPG and it is compiled for your model, tossing it into the APPS folder should still work. I could be wrong.

When an app is installed from the store, the PRG file (which contains the app code itself) is moved to a hidden/inaccessible folder (e.g. Apps/Media). To be clear, there is *no* way for end users like us to access PRG files on modern Garmin watches. This is a security measure that started with the first music apps and was eventually extended to all app types.

On older devices you could see all the PRG files and freely copy them from one watch to another. Now, not only can you not copy a PRG file off of a new watch, if you do have old PRG from an old watch, you can't copy it onto a new watch (of a different model), because the new watches will reject PRGs that were built for a different model.

I was about answer but you got the thread already. Actually FlowStateis the one you want to ask about this topic, there maybe others too but so far I got the impression: he is definitely  

On the SAME system i've done it already which would work when you have a backup of your device from an earlier version and only for the remainder of apps which still is visible. In my case the WFs, it was a factory reset of a F7s before and after on 15.77.

When I hook up the test unit next I'll try with those prgs, while it is not the same watch, it's  the same general model.  

DR said:

I found this in another thread (source: forums.garmin.com/.../1915317).

Well, I also wrote that comment, which in no way invalidates anything I wrote in this thread. 

DR said:

Can apps (I'm using this in the broad sense of CIQ code, so WF,DF, etc) be sideloaded by copying them to the watch's filesystem, even if they would typically be hidden? If yes, I don't think it matters that they're hidden, since you don't need to copy them off a device, but you just compile them to a PRG.

DR said:

So the way I understand it, only apps installed from the store are in that hidden filesystem.

You can sideload apps by copying them to the \GARMIN\APPS folder, but they will still be hidden, just like apps installed from the app store. After you copy a PRG to \GARMIN\APPS, disconnect the cable from the PC, then reconnect the cable to the PC, you will find that the PRG you just copied is no longer in \GARMIN\APPS (or anywhere on the watch that can be accessed by you, as an end user).

Because app PRGs are hidden [*], there's one less avenue for you to get your hands on PRGs in the first place. In the past it was somewhat common [**] for users to copy an app PRG off one device and sideload them to a newer device which the app did not yet support, but this isn't possible anymore. 

[*] In this context, "hidden" actually means "completely inaccessible to the end user". It's not like hiding a file in Windows, macOS, or linux, where the end user can easily "unhide" a file

[**] This was common enough that DCR referred to this practice a few times

To be clear, the problems with sideloading are:

1) you need to get your hands on the app PRG somehow (which is now impossible unless you have access to the source code, you have an old watch, or the developer is willing to build a PRG for you). As watches which don't hide PRGs get older and older, it will be harder and harder to acquire PRGs. And if you have an old PRG, it may be useless anyway, due to the next point (2).

2) if you are running a newer version of device firmware, you need an app PRG that was built with a newer compiler (this only applies to sideloading and not installing from the store.) This means that old app PRGs cannot be sideloaded to devices running newer firmware

https://forums.garmin.com/developer/connect-iq/f/discussion/410569/side-loading-connect-iq-apps-to-q2-beta-firmware-builds 

3) app settings don't work in Connect IQ (or Garmin Express). You have to generate the settings manually, somehow

4) developer FIT fields don't show up in Connect

5) if you sideload an app that was built for a different (usually older) device, it may not look right or behave properly due to differences in devices (e.g. different display type / resolution / size). This is also rendered moot by point 2. If your old watch is old enough that you could actually copy a PRG off of it, the PRG is almost certainly too old to be sideloaded on to devices with newer firmware

Most (or all) of these things are not a problem if you have the source code for an app and you can generate a PRG at will. Some of these things are dealbreakers if you have to rely on the generosity of an app dev and/or you want to make full use of an app that has settings and/or developer FIT fields

That's the whole point of sideloading - for *developers* to *test* apps. You'll note that it's not exactly designed to facilitate normal installation and usage of apps.

Erik T7 said:

only for the remainder of apps which still is visible. In my case the WFs, it was a factory reset of a F7s before and after on 15.77.

One exception to the app hiding "rule" is that for *earlier* versions of firmware for devices like FR955 and Fenix 7, only certain types of apps were hidden. But with later versions of firmware, all app types are hidden.

The boring history of this:

- old watches without support for music: all app PRGs were visible. (Watches used USB Mass Storage when connected to a computer)

- the first music watches hid only music app PRGs. (Watches now use MTP when connected to a computer)

- later watches / firmware hid music apps and a few other app types. Initially, my FR955 showed only watch faces and one other app type (data fields?)

- current watches / firmware hide all CIQ apps (my up-to-date FR955 doesn't expose any PRG files)

Thank you very much for this comprehensive summary. 

Sure np.

I will also point out that it *may* be possible to obtain a new-ish PRG from a modern Garmin watch which doesn't support music, or an Edge, as they *may* not be hiding PRGs. However:

- most modern Garmin watches support music (which means they will hide PRGs)

- I heard that the newest Edges now use MTP (even though they don't support music). I don't know if this means they also hide app PRGs though

- An app built for an Edge may not be supported on a watch and vice versa (so it may be unlikely that you'll find the data field you're looking for on an Edge in the first place). And even if you do find the app you're looking for on an Edge, that version of the app may not work properly on a watch (especially when it comes to the display)

- Edges don't support watch faces or music providers at all

When there is a new beta line opened, there's an announcement and links to the current released version along with directions on how to go back to an earlier version. So my practice since late last year, is to save them to my NAS. So I have a bunch of old firmware versions for my watch. Some of the old versions are stored on the web too but you have to ask around for them. I don't think that Garmin likes people posting links to older versions of the firmware.