Backup and restore of installed datafields / apps / glances

Hi folks,

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TL;DR

Is there a way to backup and restore installed datafiels / apps / glances on a Fenix watch in case you need to roll back to an old firmware because you accidentally installed a new messed up one and some of your datafiels / apps / glances in the store meanwhile have a higher minimum firmware requirement and you can't download them from there again?

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since my first Fenix 6X I got used to following these forums with regards to experiences with new firmware updates before installing them and messing up my watch which is a shame for Garmin.

On my Fenix 6X / 7X and now my 7X Pro I reached the point of living with one specific stable firmware and not installing any more updates so my 7X Pro is currently sitting on 17.28 and looking at the mess of new regressions that Garmin introduced with each and every new update, I don't expect that I will do any update on this watch.

Since Garmin Express has the nice habit of copying the latest firmware update to my device every time I connect it WITHOUT ASKING, it's then just one wrong setting or one wrong input away, that Garmin manages to screw up my device by installing an unwanted update (Thanks Garmin! Thanks! Really!).

Hence I'm even prepared for the worst case, having a 17.28 firmware installation file for my 7X Pro and my girlfriends 7 Pro and it's easy to backup all settings and most of the data and restoring them afterwards.

There's only one thing left that bothers me and should bother all of you.

Garmin CIQ datafiels, glances, apps move forward and it may happen, that one of these that was running fine on your device got updated meanwhile and has a higher minimum firmware requirement and even if you could bring your watch into the previous state, you will then not be able to install an older version of the datafield / app / glance, since only the newest version is available via the IQ store.

So:

Is there a way to backup the installed datafields / apps / glances from the filesystem of the watch and restore that later after the worst case happened and you need to rollback to an older firmware?

There's an "Apps" folder and I assume that it contains everything in question, but I don't know if there are more files that need to be backed up and I don't know, if it's possible to restore this by simpy copying back the files later.

One further remark in direction to Garmin, perhaps Garmin-Laurie you can forward this to the engineers, since I will have to ask a similar question in the Edge forum.
There is a mayor lack of trust into Garmins firmware updates meanwhile across the whole forum here and everywhere else, where people exchange about their experiences and problems. It's a simple reality, that Garmins QC processes in the software development departments do not work looking at how many regressions are introduced, how many reported bugs from the beta forum are taken over into productive releases etc. Working in a large software engineering company myself since almost 20 years, this is pretty clear to me and it's ridiculous honestly since your software quality has a very bad impact on otherwise great products from my point of view.
I would really appreciate, if Garmin could aknowledge, that there are a lot of people that do not WANT to get a firmware update pushed onto their device, since they want to keep it stable and do not trust in your updates. If Garmin pushes updates to devices without giving the user much control, the quality of these updates has to be really good and NOT break the device or constantly introduce new issues.
If Garmin cannot deliver this quality, there should be a clear switch in the Connect IQ store and Garmin Connect apps, Garmin Express etc. to switch off automatic updates. Currently that's not everywhere the case and you still have to be careful as a user not to make a wrong input or let something happen. Also Garmin should provide old firmwares for download so that every user can roll back to an old state. Yeah, give it a disclaimer, that this implies a reset and loss of data and it might lead to things not working in Garmin Connect but please give the users the choice to stay on a firmware and not change their system.
Otherwise if you don't want that, please sort out the QC issues in your software development process and let us gain trust in your updates again.

Thanks and best regards,

Thomas

Top Replies

FlowState 2 months ago +2

ThomasN said:
There's an "Apps" folder and I assume that it contains everything in question, but I don't know if there are more files that need to be backed up and I don't know, if it's possible to restore…
FlowState 2 months ago in reply to Erik T7 +1 suggested

Erik T7 said:
I can add a little since I had to factory reset one of our F7s at 15.77

15.77 is a rather old firmware version (I would guess from a year or two ago?)

I should clarify: *at release*, most…

All Replies

0 FlowState 2 months ago

ThomasN said:
There's an "Apps" folder and I assume that it contains everything in question, but I don't know if there are more files that need to be backed up and I don't know, if it's possible to restore this by simpy copying back the files later.

It doesn't. On modern Garmin watches (including Fenix 7 series), the user-accessible Apps/ folder does not contain the apps themselves (in the form of PRG files), only some related files (such as settings). So if you back up and restore the Apps/ folder, at best you will save yourself from having to configure all your CIQ data fields again [*]. But you still have to manually redownload the actual apps from the store.

When an app is installed from the store, the PRG file (which contains the app code itself) is moved to a hidden/inaccessible folder (e.g. Apps/Media). To be clear, there is *no* way for end users like us to access PRG files on modern Garmin watches. This is a security measure that started with the first music apps and was eventually extended to all app types.

On older devices you could see all the PRG files and freely copy them from one watch to another. Now, not only can you not copy a PRG file off of a new watch, if you do have old PRG from an old watch, you can't copy it onto a new watch (of a different model), because the new watches will reject PRGs that were built for a different model.

All of this is to say that the old practice of copying PRGs from device to device (even the same device) is pretty much over.

[*] Even the part about restoring settings is unlikely, given that apps downloaded from the store have a "random" filename, and the corresponding setting file has to have the same name. So once you redownload an app, it will probably have a new name that doesn't match the old settings file. Yes, technically it would be possible to figure out which app the old settings file corresponded to, and to figure out the new name of the same app so you can rename the settings file, but that's a lot of work, and it's not as simple as just copying and pasting files.

0 Erik T7 2 months ago in reply to FlowState

@ThomasN: Great question, I was asking that myself. And now we have the answer, @Flowstate: many thanks for that.

I can add a little since I had to factory reset one of our F7s at 15.77 and tried exactly that - copying back the content of the /Apps folder. While I got all CIQ watchfaces with settings back (that probably being the remaining .prg files in /Apps) I got non of the datafields & apps back. But even for the watchfaces I'd suspect that this will only work if you either have a WF which is still compatible to the firmware you backdated to or if you have a backup from the exact version you're going back to. I had the latter since it was a normal factory reset from 15.77 to 15.77. So it is always a good idea to keep backups from earlier versions. No luck with apps though - what a pitty.

@Flowstate: thanks for making that clear...

0 FlowState 2 months ago in reply to Erik T7

Erik T7 said:
I can add a little since I had to factory reset one of our F7s at 15.77

15.77 is a rather old firmware version (I would guess from a year or two ago?)

I should clarify: *at release*, most or all of the currently supported watches from the past few years (the generation *before* Fenix 8) would only hide PRGs for *some* app types, including Fenix 7. For example, iirc, a couple of years ago, my Forerunner 955 (released 2022) would also show watchfaces in the APPS/ folder, but no other app types. At that time, I could also manually copy over old watchface PRGs made for FR935, and they worked (even if some of them looked funny due to display resolution differences).

But eventually (maybe a year ago) my FR955 received a firmware update or updates with a couple of effects:

- I could no longer copy over PRGs of any app type, if they were made for a different device. (No more copying old PRGs from FR935)

- I could no longer see *any* PRGs in the APPS/ folder (not even watchfaces)

So I think that anyone who has up-to-date Fenix 7 firmware (or even firmware from last year) will be unable to recover watchfaces and watchface settings the way you did.

Again, if you have the technical know-how, you may be able to recover all CIQ app settings if:

- you manually reinstall the apps from the store first

- you know how to determine the original PRG/settings filenames (before factory reset) and you're able to rename the settings filenames to match the new PRGs. This isn't impossible but it's a bit technical and rather tedious

It does seem that the built-in backup and restore feature is supposed to backup and restore "Connect IQ store content". I don't know if this means only settings or both apps and settings:

https://support.garmin.com/en-CA/?faq=fLogiPl4Vr5p8u0bFNWmK7

What I am sure of is that you cannot manually backup and restore the apps themselves (PRGs) anymore.

0 Erik T7 2 months ago in reply to FlowState

FlowState said:
(I would guess from a year or two ago?)

Good guess, it's from Q4/2023 and I stuck with it since I have no important problems with it while being asked about backdating Garmins from peers who tried newer versions.

So bad news as for the newer versions as for WFs too - no .prg anymore. This is probably connected to the new CIQ versions.

FlowState said:
- you manually reinstall the apps from the store first

As for Apps with this newer CIQ version I was unable to install those onto the resetted F7 with 15.77 anyway. I saw the setting files and was even able to identify most of those but no joy b/o no app anymore and for most no way to install them on 15.77. To copy the content of the folder was just a last try to get them back which worked only for the WFs in this case but will - as I understand - work no longer when on uptodate firmware too.

FlowState said:
t does seem that the built-in backup and restore feature is supposed to backup and restore "Connect IQ store content". I don't know if this means only settings or both apps and settings:

This is a nice hint. Most of my aforementioned peers are not as strict with their data as I am and have their Garmins connected anyway. So a backup might help in case of another reset/downgrade might be necessary.

And maybe, hopefully, we'll get a software update which is at least on par with 15.77 as for the stability. I'm not optimistic anymore though.

Thank you very much for the clarification and the hint about the backup.

0 FlowState 2 months ago in reply to Erik T7

You're welcome!

Erik T7 said:
So a backup might help in case of another reset/downgrade might be necessary.

Yeah I was under the impression that the built-in backup and restore *does* cover both apps and settings, based on forum discussions and because otherwise it would be kinda useless, but I didn't want to say so 100% because I haven't tried that part myself.

0 ThomasN 2 months ago in reply to FlowState

Thank you for this very comprehensive answer! I expected that already.

Good point with the built in backup / restore functionality, hopefully it contains everything, I will definitely create a backup and store it on my PC for the worst case, hopefully that covers everything.