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DSW HR vs. pace

Robert
1 month ago

Garmin Folks, Forum Guys, first of all I would like to say that DSW is an outstanding tool and great feature. I've been using it for more than a year on daily basis. I made significant improvement to my health, well-being and my running capabilities. Big thank you for this feature. It is a must-have for every amateur and intermediate runner. 

My first DSW year was based on HR and I recalculated my HR zones from HR max to LTHR during the year. The second change was implemented by Garmin. They changed anaerobic intervals from HR to pace.

I started to struggle with my VO2 Max runs. According to Garmin my HR Max is 185 bpm, LTHR 164 bpm but it's really hard for me to break the barrier of 170 bpm. My last VO2 Max run based on HR had execution score 0% because I was barely in Z5 below 170 bpm. The target was 176bpm which seems insane because I'm not able to convince my ticker to such hard work.

So I changed my DSW to pace and my first VO2 Max run had target pace 4:45. All interval runs was in target window except recovery runs because I wanted to drop my HR. Therefore execution score was 64%.

But the problem is that those two runs were almost identical. In fact, my DSW based on pace run was slightly slower. In my humble opinion there is something fundamentally wrong with algorithms or with my ticker. Average pace, average HR and max HR was on the same level therefore HR target should be much lower to match my real capabilities or pace target should be higher and I should push insanely more than that to reach 176 bpm.

My questions are:

1. Should I push more and stay on HR based DSW?

2. Should I stay on pace based VO2 Max Intervals because Garmin is not capable of calculate HR target properly? 

3. Is there a chance to recalculate my target HR for VO2 Max intervals to real achievable values from pace based runs?

Edit: All runs with HRM Pro+

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to Daniele_Suroh

    I'm 46 so my HR Max would be 174. According to Garmin it's 186. 

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to Robert

    Why? Does everybody with 46 have the same HR max? 

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to Robert

    try disabling the fcmax detection, set 174 both in the user profile and in the sport heart rate (running and cycling), then enable the fcmax detection again and try to see after a few runs, as a last resort I would say (if you still notice anomalies) to do as I wrote in another topic, a hard reset, maybe some bug has been created after several overwrites (it happened to me some time ago and now every time I update I do a hard reset just to be safe), otherwise it's yet another bug of garmin

    P.S. I'm going for 45 and I should have 175, garmin estimated me at 188 and, whether it's max or not I don't know, I got there at those bpm pulling at the final stage of the vo2max run

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to Daniele_Suroh

    I think resetting hrmax won't change anything because I had one run 2 years ago with 188 bpm running uphill with 25kg overweight. I don't know if it was properly measured but it's saved in my profile. So recalculating with historical data will result with the same number.

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to Robert

    I said to try to set 174 (in all zones) because, if it created a bug, if it then put you back 185 it might fix itself not because 174 is your actual but, making this attempt, it might fix something, if not, you evaluate a hard reset or not, in my opinion there is some conflict in the software and it is not a hw defect. 

    ah, some time ago, not knowing that it also calculated the fcmax without exaggerated exertion, when it gave me a higher value then I lowered it...but then, after a few runs, it gave me the higher fcmax again...I thought it only applied to the threshold!

  • 0 1 month ago

    I had similar HR value (185 max, LTHR 169 @4:10/km). For VO2 max interval training, i think you should based on pace (higher 15-20s with LTHR pace), not HR. Because HR always delay, for VO2 max interval, running time is only 3-5 mins, not enough to make it higher than 170. 

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to David Nguyen

    Thak you Guys! I've switched to pace DSW with all runs. So far looks promising even with base training.

  • 0 1 month ago in reply to David Nguyen

    I also use the pace for vo2max workouts, but whether it's 2 minutes or 4, when I finish the repetition and look at the garmin I see that the bpm have been reached, you don't do it in 5 minutes :o ?!!(obviously with 15‘ or 40’ sprints the bpm are not reached in time)

  • 0 30 days ago in reply to Daniele_Suroh

    Normally, for VO2 max intervals, the distances are 200m, 400m, 600m, 800m, or 1000m, or based on durations of 3–4–5 minutes. The rest time is also a factor that determines whether your heart rate (HR) can rise high enough. For example, for me, with a 2-minute workout and a 1-minute rest (walking or slightly jogging), my HR cannot reach 165 bpm.

    A year ago, I could easily reach an HR of over 180 bpm. Over time, it seems that when we build enough base training (zone 2 training) and threshold training, the heart becomes stronger. As a result, the same pace requires a lower bpm. I live in a tropical country where the temperature is about 30–35°C.

    I’ve noticed that I can reach an HR of over 170 bpm if I run 30 seconds per kilometer faster than my LT pace for about 4 minutes (pace 3:25–3:30/km) or during an LTHR test lasting 25 minutes, transitioning from an easy run to an all-out effort (finishing at a pace of about 3:35/km).

    It seems something happens during training: as we train, our HR adapts more easily to the intensity of workouts and becomes stronger. However, our skeletal and muscular systems develop at a much slower pace compared to the heart. Before our HR touch the highest point, our body and muscle are fatigued because of lactate. 

  • 0 30 days ago in reply to David Nguyen

    Perfect!!! I have been using the DSW for a year now and in this period I improved a lot (and lowering bpm at the same speed), by the way, talking about hot weather, I improved vo2max a lot in the summer time even with 35/36 degree runs, in the winter time instead I had minimal improvements, however it is also true that in the beginning the improvement is fast and then instead it takes longer. (kind of like when you lose weight, the first kg are fast and the others are harder)!
    Thank you for responding and giving me new information about heart adaptation over time even at high intensity!