DSW mismatch with TE

I use DSW, based on HR, for my running and I feel that it often underestimate the TE from the given workouts, especially threshold or tempo workouts (mening I get a higher TE than expected).

For instance, a few days ago I was supposed to run 10 min zone 2 warm up, 2x18 min at 4 BPM below threshold HR with 5 min zone 1 in-between and 10 min zone 2 wind down. I think it was supposed to be about 4 TE aerobic. It came out at 4.9 TE aerobic and 2.3 anaerobic, 67h recovery time and no workout the day after (changed me to rest instead of base). Any reasons for this? I have to admit that I sometimes for short periods of time went up to threshold HR (172 BPM) but the mean HR for the first interval was 170 and the second 168.

My LTHR pace is, according to the watch, 4:05/km, LTHR 173 BPM. This is also a bit strange - I ran at between 3:48-3:53/min at the HRs above.

My maxHR is the same as always (186 BPM) and is set to auto update. Today I ran a maxHR-test and it came out to 186 BPM.

I did the DSW-change from %maxHR to %LTHR 4 months ago (after a LTHR-test in the watch). I was really happy when it upped my target HR by 4 BPM - it meant I could run a bit faster. Another strange thing is that is has tried to downgrade me ever since, by a second/beat or so. In the same time, I've improved my 5 km time from 21 min to 19 min at the track (and the watch thinks I can run it in 17:46 - haven't tried that yet, 19 min was during a threshold run).

I found a table for average %maxHR mapped to training type:

Average %
%maxHR
Rest 58.50%
Recovery

67.87%

Base 74.70%
Tempo 83.72%
Threshold 88.32%
VO2Max 95.19%

 However, my base target HR is 143 BPM, which is 76.88% maxHR.

Any ideas as to why there's this mismatch between DSW and TE?

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  • For instance, a few days ago I was supposed to run 10 min zone 2 warm up, 2x18 min at 4 BPM below threshold HR with 5 min zone 1 in-between and 10 min zone 2 wind down. I think it was supposed to be about 4 TE aerobic. It came out at 4.9 TE aerobic and 2.3 anaerobic

    In short, the most usual suspect is the Max HR or Rest HR. If the TE is consistently over reported (workouts feel easier than reported), the Max HR is not high enough or the Rest HR is too high, and vice versa.

    More details:

    There are 2 main layers:

    - the calculation of the training effect for the aerobic system and the anaerobic system: the training effects are calculated based on the peak Estimated Postexercise Oxygen Consumption (EPOC, essential impact) and the average training load of the user (minor impact). EPOC is estimated based on fixed parameters like Max HR and Rest HR, workout HR/HRV data, and, to a great extent, pace/power data for the anaerobic TE for biking and running activities only.

    - the determination of the workout label based on the training effect is based on multiple rules involving multiple aspects of the EPOC dynamic during the workout, and to a second level of impact LTHR and/or power/pace at threshold for biking and running.

    As you can see there are a lot of ways the TE might be estimated very differently from the expected TE of a given workout.

    The first thing to understand is that HR training zones only set expectations, regardless of the type of zone definition. They, or the time in zone, are not used to calculated the training effect or the workout label.

    So, here is what a user should do to maximize the chances of an accurate TE calculation:

    - enter an accurate Max HR,

    - have an accurate Rest HR by wearing the watch all the time,

    - use a chest trap during all workouts not only to improve HR/HRV data capture, but also to maximize the accuracy of the Max HR and LTHR auto-detections

    - follow a balanced training program to expose the watch to a variety of efforts, so that the relationship between ventilation, output for running and biking (pace/power) and duration is not biased.

    - from time to time, replace the effort level for a given set of intervals in a DSW by a maximal steady effort. This is because, although the watch is pretty good at estimating "max effort" things like VO2 max, Max HR, LTHR from sub-maximal efforts, the accuracy of the estimates will be higher when maxish efforts are used. Only trained athletes can managed "safely" max efforts, so check with your doctor if you are not used to them.

    Max HR auto-detection: compare your number with the peak HR from your last 5K ran as fast as you could until your dropped. Your PB peak HR should be about 5bpm lower than your Max HR.

    LTHR auto-detection: compare with your average HR during the second 19mn interval, if the interval was a maximal steady effort. You average HR multiplied by 0.95 should be close to your LTHR (a true LTHR test would be 30mn maximal steady effort, that the average of the last 20mn, multiply by 0.95).

  • I'll answer in bullet point form:

    • Accurate maxHR - as accurate as can be. It has been 186 BPM since I bought the watch and I verified the maxHR yesterday when I did a maxHR-test. No change at all.

    • I’ve been wearing the watch 23-24h/day since early July

    • I’ve been wearing a HRM-Dual during all workouts since early August

    • I’ve been using DSW almost entirely for my running since July

    • Maximal steady effort? Like max out for the interval instead of for instance threshold pace according to DSW? Or what's the definition of maximal steady effort? 

    • I checked a 6k race I ran in July, peak HR was 185, maxHR yesterday was 186.

    • My average HR during the last 18 min interval was 168 BPM at a 3:51 pace. I’m not sure it was a maximal steady effort - I notice that my breathing becomes different when I go above 174 BPM (i.e. the estimated LTHR from the watch at 172-173 BPM seems to be correct). The threshold runs, when using HR-guided DSW, seems to aim for LTHR minus 4 (target HR 169 BPM).
  • Well, you are doing great with many of the conditions of success, and your results are copacetic.

    Maximal steady effort? Like max out for the interval instead of for instance threshold pace according to DSW? Or what's the definition of maximal steady effort? 

    Exactly. For a given DSW, replace the target pace by the fastest pace you can sustain during the intervals.

    The threshold runs, when using HR-guided DSW, seems to aim for LTHR minus 4 (target HR 169 BPM).

    The watch is using % of VO2 Max for all targets, and the personalized relationship between VO2, HR, pace, duration to transform VO2 to HR and VO2 to pace for pace targets.

    For threshold runs, the target might be slightly lower than LTHR for longer intervals, and slightly above for shorter intervals.