This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

Sorry Garmin

Former Member
Former Member

I have been using Garmin since the first Vivoactive came out, and have used every fenix version since they first came out. Garmin's have served me well over the years, but they are geared more towards athletes than a regular guy like me, and now that I'm older (65), I just don't need all the advanced fitness features. Plus Garmin's have always made me feel like I was not working hard enough, even though I was. For example, if I worked hard enough to get my VO2 max up to 36, for my age, Garmin would consider that "just into the good range" (or average). When I google VO2 max for my age, it tells me anything over 28 is considered above average. I have nothing against Garmin doing that, but the experience I get is that I'm never doing good enough, and I'm never going to be an elite athlete at my age.

I need something now that is going to track my activity as though I'm just an average person trying to stay healthy, and has fitness features that are not too basic or too advanced. I have tried the Apple Watch's a few times, but they where always too basic using the native apps, even though they are very good devices.

Well... at least until now anyway. The Apple Watch Ultra is out, so I gave it a try, and am very impressed so far. It's titanium with a sapphire lens, has double the battery life (2-days), has more advanced fitness features, has better sleep tracking, and does NOT give me the user experience that I am NEVER going to be good enough.

Garmin has great devices, but are more geared toward athletes than just regular people like me, but I will still miss them.

  • yep i'm with you, this has been an argument for quite a while. tremendous article here discussing the issues in phenomenal detail (although keep in mind we're a couple of generations newer in optical sensors from when the article was written):

    http://www.muscleoxygentraining.com/2019/05/firstbeat-vo2-estimation-valid-or-voodoo.html

    the bottom line though is that vo2max, LT, EPOC and training effect are INCREDIBLY difficult metrics to estimate. you require lab testing for accuracy. the same can be said about BMR for that matter. FirstBeat's extensive work in these areas and their transparency as to how the data is derived is for me, industry leading. i have no idea how apple calculates vo2max or LT or EPOC or TE or if it can even be done on those devices, and for me it doesn't matter. whether it's voodoo or not, the data SEEMS accurate for my purposes, and that's good enough.

    while i admire apple, as this is their first sports-oriented device i doubt seriously they have anywhere near the expertise to even hazard a guess on some of these metrics. hell, the watch can't even record some of the baseline data that's required (cycling power). i look forward to them proving me wrong as the months and years go by, but i don't think garmin's going to stand still either.

    but none of this was what OP was talking about lol...

  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 2 years ago in reply to Skyewalkr
    speaking of data, garmin data is driven by first beat

    speaking of data, garmin data is driven by first beat

    You mean "worst beat"?

    That's what I call it. Before that and when it was just the first fenix that did not use "worst beat", I was happy with my results. Then "worst beat" came along and ruined it with their advanced athlete fitness philosophy, and their impossible to reach goals for an average person like me. I tried to ignore those metrics, but they still always got on my nerves.

    According to "worst beat" my VO2 max has to be 36 just to be in the good zone, when the whole rest of the world considers anything above 28 to be above average.

  • When I google VO2 max for my age, it tells me anything over 28 is considered above average.

    This was what caught most of my attention. Got me thinking about the subjects you were being compared to that made your age range. It really opened my eyes to how I’ll see insights, VO2 Max and every other data comparison graph from now on and help me remember to lay off any pressure to catch up.

    I wouldn’t change because of battery life Grin, but just from this I think it’s reason enough to write this here. I wish you the best and a healthy life. 

    I personally did not like the watch telling me my training was unproductive

    Same, it can be frustrating especially when something goes wrong and you miss data that would’ve influenced your Training Status. I’m treating it more as a rough guideline now and trying to put more attention to workout-recovery balance through how I feel (still learning).

  • So.....I'm a 60 year old dude and I like my Garmin 7X because of the maps, long battery life, navigation, solar, etc.  It all depends on use case and what you want out of your watch.  Good for you that you found what you wanted.

  • Welll I'm 71 and as much as I have tried to like the Apple Watch, it's hard not to like the Garmin stats that tell me I'm in the top 5% and only 58 years old Grinning

    But in the end, it's all about what makes YOU happy.  I really like the looks of the Apple Watch Ultra, and wish you many years of happy use!

  • For example, if I worked hard enough to get my VO2 max up to 36, for my age, Garmin would consider that "just into the good range" (or average).

    You got me interested here...

    I googled "what is a good vo2 max by age and gender" and I looked at the 3 top results


    Yikes. The first one is even more depressing than you thought, 36 is still in the orange zone!

    www.runnersblueprint.com/.../

    Firstbeat is the top#2 link, 36 is indeed in the good range, not average!

    www.firstbeat.com/.../

    In top link #3, you still need 36 to have a good VO2max...

    Wait!, the values are in fact similar to Firstbeat, ...

    www.fitnescity.com/understanding-vo2-max

    Even if you go to link #4, you will again find that 36 is what takes you to the top range.

    Gee man, this VO2 max stuff is killing me

    When I google VO2 max for my age, it tells me anything over 28 is considered above average

    I tried to google "VO2 Max for 65 year-old man" and it points to link # 3 above.

    But don't worry, all this pressure and VO2 max nightmare will go away with the Apple watch :-)

  • I am very happy with all of the Fenixes I have had going back to the Fenix 3. I can only take take the metrics seriously as a snapshot in time indicating a relative level of fitness. I am now 65 with a VO2 of 38 and a fitness age of 58, last year pre covid i had a VO2 of 42 and a fitness age of 35...now I take all of that with a pinch of salt as I think is intended. If you want accurate and serious metrics go to a sports lab. 

  • If only hardcore athletes bought the Fenix watches, Garmin would lose lots of money. Grin 

  • have fun with your new watch.. I agree that Apple offer better user experience - Their engineering teams are just superior. I recently jumped ship from iPhone to OnePlus and I must admit iPhone is just better when it comes to bugs and smooth software experience.

    My guess is Garmin have so many waches, Vivo, Venu, Fenix, Marq, Forerunner etc etc that they cant keep up bug fixing over and over again. I can live with the small bugs, because I love the stats... Stats that Apple cant offer. I use a chest-strap so it dosent matter to me  that the sensor is hot garbage compared to Apples

    Enjoy your watch, but my guess is that you will be back within a year ;)