Does Garmin look at my avg pace or GAP when evaluating my performance?

tboooe said:

My question is if Garmin uses my avg pace or GAP when it evaluates my performance

 Since GAP is a recent new data field, I personally doubt that Garmin has updated all the VO2 Max model infrastructure to use it. I hope that, if they go down the path of changing that infrastructure, it is towards using power, rather than GAP anyway.

I think where GAP shines is when you compare your performance across runs with different varied terrains, but for the purpose of feeding the watch performance model, I would continue working out regularly on flat courses.

Etupes25 said:

I would continue working out regularly on flat courses.

So here is a great example of why Garmin needs to use GAP when evaluating runs.  Today I ran 7 miles at 9:15.  The exercise load was 665.  A few days ago I ran the same distance in my neighborhood which is a bit hilly so my pace was only 9:46 but my GAP was 9:20.  The exercise load for this run was only 396.  Because of this, my Training Status dropped from Productive to Maintaining.  

tboooe said:

Because of this, my Training Status dropped from Productive to Maintaining. 

Typically the training status changes when the VO2 max weekly trend has changed. With Fenix7, the watch looks like at the VO2 max value in the past (I am not sure whether it is a week or several), and compares it with the latest.

How does your VO2 max graph look like on the watch?

Etupes25 said:

How does your VO2 max graph look like on the watch?

My VO2 max has not changed in 6 weeks.

So as a follow up, if I run next time in my neighborhood, then my avg pace will he higher at the same HR as when I ran at 9:15 on a flat course.  Wont this in turn have a negative impact on my VO2 max calculation?  

tboooe said:

Wont this in turn have a negative impact on my VO2 max calculation?

Yes, it will a bit. You will get some "negative" performance condition points. If you accumulate them for a while, your VO2max will be impacted. It is a bit the same problem as running in trails, and this is why Garmin is allowing to disallow VO2max contribution from trail running.

My POV is that your VO2max trends should reflect your preferred activity, and not worry too much about fluctuations. In the end, if you train right, you will get fitness benefits, even if the metrics is (temporarily) adversely impacted. I have this issue these days as I train indoor for cycling on a bike that gives me lower watts than my road bike. So my performance condition has been decreasing, and my VO2max lost a couple of points. Same thing with my FTP. I know this happens during the winter, than I make fantastic progress in the spring on my road

Was searching for the meaning of GAP but found something better. It seems like you might know the answer so I’ll throw this question at ya Etupes25 

My displayed VO2max is from indoor cycling which I only do power zone 2 rides and FTP tests. After dropping its trend hasn’t change since late november. Since then I’ve done 4 inline skating sessions with 4+ VO2max AeTE (others were classified as Threshold). To my understanding only running and cycling activities affect VO2max score. The question is: Will these “improvements” I’m having in VO2max through skating indirectly reflect in some way in my cycling score after subsequent cycling activities? Or to see the VO2max trend go up the AeTE must be in cycling activities?

Frederick said:

The question is: Will these “improvements” I’m having in VO2max

Every activity you do affects VO2max whether or not you have Garmin giving you a number. Furthermore, the reality is that VO2max should only be viewed as a trend metric over a period of weeks, not daily. 

Thanks for that last tip! It’ll help get my eyes off the graph every week. 

To add to what philipshambrook said:

Frederick said:

My displayed VO2max is from indoor cycling which I only do power zone 2 rides and FTP tests

Make sure you perform max intensity workouts on the bike. VO2 Max model accuracy depends on the intensity of the workout.

Microsoft Word - VO2_white_paper_Revised_B.doc (firstbeat.com)

pulkkinen_at_al_acsm_2004_congress.pdf (firstbeat.com)

For example, if you do hard workouts on a treadmin (no VO2 max calculation) and you jog easy outdoors, you will provide bias data to the model.

Another source of error is the HR Max.

Frederick said:

Will these “improvements” I’m having in VO2max through skating indirectly reflect in some way in my cycling score after subsequent cycling activities?

Yep

Frederick said:

Or to see the VO2max trend go up the AeTE must be in cycling activities?

a) You can see different VO2 max values for different sports because the muscles being solicited are different, but I wouldn't worry about it. I would venture that inline skating is closer to running than to biking.

b) as described above, make sure you have max intensity workouts for cycling

c) VO2 Max workouts are excellent in any activity to improve VO2 Max. The objective of these workouts is to keep the heart rate close to 90%-95% of HR Max as long as possible. The duration is typically limited by the build up of lactate threshold, in particular in untrained athletes. Hence doing very hard shorter intervals ( around 4mn) with rest periods (typically as long as the intervals) that don't let the HR drop too much, around 6 to 10 times to maximize the time spent in high zone in aggregate.

d) long, low intensity workouts (typically around 65% to 70% of HR max) are triggering peripheral adaptations at the muscle fiber level to make them more capable of absorbing and processing the oxygen. The key here is to keep the HR lowish but for long period of time (technically at or just below the first ventilatory threshold).