Will Garmin ever improve the sleep accuracy of the fenix 7?

So I bought the Garmin fenix 7X Sapphire Solar, for about €1K, and cash too, not a monthly payment plan. For that much money, I expect serious quality. I previously used the Vivosmart 4, and its sleep tracking accuracy was more of a gimmick (wildly off, even registered me as sleeping while I was in the shower in the morning). This was the main reason why I took so long to switch over to 7X. I was thinking, yeah, the Vivosmart is one of their more budget entry models, surely the fenix 7 must have better sleep tracking accuracy, but if the sleep tracking is this much off on the Vivosmart 4, it's gonna be off on the fenix 7 as well. Turns out that was the case.

Before I bought the fenix 7X, I bought the Garmin Instinct Solar, and this being an older model than the Instinct 2 Solar, it had about as poor sleep tracking accuracy as the Vivosmart 4 (and just as bad blood oxygen accuracy; always at 89%), so I figured that I have no choice here but to buy the fenix 7X, and having read about its new Elevate Gen 4 sensor, I figured that I'd see an improvement in sleep. I also have a Garmin Index S2 smart scale, so I'm in it for the long haul as far as Garmin is concerned.

Now, the sleep tracking accuracy in the 7X Sapphire is a dramatic improvement compared to the Vivosmart 4, but it's still far off from the Fitbits, Whoops and Apple Watches. I found The Quantified Scientist's YouTube channel after I had bought the fenix 7X. I liked his reviews, where he compares the fitness trackers he's reviewing to a Dreem 2 headband (EEG). Now the best comparison would be to polysomnography (PSG), but the Dreem 2 is close enough to PSG in accuracy, so his results are a fairly good ballpark on how these fitness trackers perform, with the exception of the sleep accuracy test he did for the 2022 Apple Watch SE (he only measured two nights; if he did more nights it probably wouldn't be that accurate). Anyway I'm aware that many users on this forum know about The Quantified Scientist's YouTube channel, but this is the statistics from one of his most recent reviews, in which he reviewed the Fitbit Sense 2:

^^ He hadn't yet reviewed the Fitbit Sense 2, but looking at where the Fitbit Sense positioned itself on sleep tracking accuracy, I presumed the Sense 2 would have about the same accuracy, so I bought the Sense 2 as well, and keep in mind, I didn't want to do this. I don't wanna run around with two fitness trackers, but I had to, because the sleep accuracy of the fenix 7 series just doesn't hold up well enough, and I want as accurate statistics as possible. I also ditched my Whoop 4 and Withings Scanwatch Horizon; too uncomfortable with four fitness trackers, and the Sense 2 was a good replacement for both. But as far as sleep is concerned, they generally performed much better than the fenix 7X.

From what it looks like now, I have no plans to ditch Garmin, because Garmin Connect is a really solid, and a really really good app. I love Garmin Connect, but let's keep it real: a health tracking app is only as good as its data. And sleep accuracy really has too improve. It was by the way mainly the Stress and Recovery HRV (Firstbeat) feature that brought me to Garmin in the first place, because this feature was previously available in Sony's SmartBand 2 (Lifelog), great stuff, so I'm sold on this feature alone, and I like the direction Garmin is going with the smart scales and smart blood pressure monitors, long battery life on their smartwatches and stylish smartwatches and so on. But the competition is really tough these days, and if it gets to a point where I can have only one fitness tracker that measures as many health stats as possible and gives me highly accurate readings on everything it measures, I'll be using that company's devices alone.

It can't be stressed enough how important sleep is for health, and Garmin entered the wearables market more than a decade ago, with GPS watches for joggers. Garmin does very well here given its long history with satellites and GPS, and the fenix 7X is top notch in this department, with the functionality of choosing multiple bands and increased GNSS accuracy. But where Garmin is really lagging behind is sleep. I look at the changelogs of the fenix 7 firmware, and not much has been done about the poor sleep tracking. Yeah I get it, bugs and features are also important and they must be added and so on, but come on now? Most of us who buy fitness trackers today, we want accurate fitness data and statistics. That's our top priority, not golf (lol). I realize we'll probably never get 100% accurate sleep tracking from any of these brands, but Garmin should come out on top in these sleep accuracy tests.

Personally I expect that if I spend a lot of money on a fitness tracker, the price should correlate with accuracy. I know very well that's not the case, but I didn't buy the fenix 7X for its premium materials, but for its accuracy; being the Garmin wearables flagship, it must have the highest accuracy compared to other Garmin devices, and according to The Quantified Scientist, the Garmin Vivomove Sport has much better sleep accuracy. And the Vivomove Sport doesn't even use Elevate Gen 4, so it must be using a better sleep tracking algorithm or something like that. Needless to say, the Vivomove Sport is a relatively cheap device. The Garmin Forerunner 255 also has better sleep tracking than the fenix 7X. Now the 255 is a bit more expensive than the Vivomove Sport, but it's still much cheaper than the fenix 7X Sapphire Solar. This almost sounds like a business decision: these cheaper devices will sell more, so let's prioritize their sleep accuracy.

Now I'm not knocking the cheaper Garmins, I think they should have excellent sleep accuracy, but what about us who pay a lot of money for the more expensive Garmin smartwatches?

It would only do Garmin good, revenue-wise, if Garmin updated their devices with a new and improved sleep tracking algorithm. A lot of people have sleep issues in this day and age where everything is stress here and hectic there, and we're looking for as accurate as possible sleep tracking when we buy these devices, and so it's in Garmin's interests to improve and deliver in this area.

Anyway I hope this thread won't be closed; this is just constructive criticism, and I'm looking for a constructive discussion here, and I'd really like to see Garmin improve its sleep tracking. We want accuracy in these devices, otherwise there's no point in wearing them. We're still far off from the one size fits all fitness tracker, but Garmin can do much better in sleep tracking than it's doing now.

Sleep tracking accuracy should be top priority for Garmin from now on.

  • TBH - TLDR ;) One thing to address this in general. If you pick Garmin Fenix mainly as a sleep tracker, well - you're making 'interesting' choices. For me Fenix is a great GPS watch with 'good enough' heart rate tracking for outdoor activity.

    Sleep tracking is a nice addition, but was, is and never will be the main focus area in this product line. Can it be improved? Yes! Can it be as good, as in a sleep tracker worn on a finger with skin temperature sensors? No.

    Sports watch can have a sleep tracking feature added. Sleep tracker can have activity tracking added. In both, the latter is an addition and will never be as good, as the primary use aspect. Personally I use Fenix 7X SS for outdoor activity and as my daily 'smart watch' as well. For sleep tracking I've been using Oura Ring (gen2, now gen3). I don't expect Fenix to be as good as Oura in terms of sleep tracking. I also don't expect Oura Ring to be anywhere near Garmin Fenix when it comes to outdoor activity tracking. Hardware limitations, where we wear this device - it all matters.

    So, to sum up or tldr - Garmin surely needs to work on improving sleep tracking (I do see huge discrepancies between Fenix and Oura Ring) and add skin temperature sensors (that's the main hardware component missing compared to Apple Watch, Oura Ring and other wearables that track sleep much better) in the next Fenix generation. But it should never be the 'top priority for Garmin' as you put it. If it would, Garmin would not be Garmin and Fenix would not be a Fenix ;) Besides, sleeping with something as big as F7X isn't the most 'partner friendly' thing. I tend to take the watch off quite often for bedtime. But it's a whole different story.

  • I disagree wholeheartedly, lol. I'm not saying sleep should be the main focus area of the fenix series. I'm saying the fenix 7 series has quite good sensors for tracking sleep, and could easily be on par with the Apple watches. And it's embarrassing that the fenix 7 isn't, not because its hardware isn't capable; it is, but because Garmin simply doesn't seem to care. Good sleep tracking is a launch feature. Sure we expect to get improved sleep tracking algorithms later on, but even that it seems like we're not getting. The fenix 7 has been out for almost a year now, and its sleep accuracy doesn't seem to have had an update so far, so it seems like we're not getting any improvement at all here.

    The fenix 7 costs about as much as the Apple Watch Ultra, and the AWU has pretty good sleep tracking. Why should the fenix 7 lag behind Apple on sleep? It's embarrassing you know: we're charging you thousand bucks for the fenix 7X Sapphire Solar, but we can't give you as good sleep tracking accuracy as Apple. And Apple has lagged behind on sleep and didn't even measure sleep cycles until recently, and now Apple is giving Garmin a run for their money.

    Like it or not, but Garmin has basically entered the personal health and fitness scene, and Garmin now competes for market share based on some basic features that all these fitness trackers measure, such as heart rate, sleep etc., and yeah, excellent GPS accuracy when you're out jogging or hitchhiking is great and all, and Garmin performs well here, but GPS accuracy is an easy challenge these days: Garmin has to put some priority on sleep tracking, because the sleep stats happen to be very relevant to other health metrics, like training readiness and recovery and so on. How can the body battery be accurate, for example, when Garmin isn't even capturing the sleep cycles accurately? If the Vivomove Sport can deliver that good sleep tracking results with an older generation sensor (which I assume is less accurate) than the Garmin Elevate Gen 4 sensor, then it's not that farfetched to assume that the fenix 7 could give us sleep tracking accuracy in the 70% to 80% range, which is where Apple is at right now. And that's not that far off from EEG and PSG, both being around 84% to 88% range. So 100% sleep tracking accuracy might not be achievable with green, red and infralight, I'm not expecting that, but at the very least give us 70% accuracy; the fenix 7 can handle that.

    And by the way, the Oura 3 isn't that accurate. The Fitbit Sense 2 and Apple Watches have higher sleep accuracy than Oura 3. What the Oura 3 is really good at, is capturing when you went to sleep and when you woke up, and of course also naps, which is another thing Garmin has to improve on. But for sleep cycles, the Oura 3 simply isn't as accurate as many wrist-based fitness trackers.

    Personally I always sleep with my fenix 7X on; it's big but as long as the band is comfortable, it's not really a big problem. I use a velcro band, so it's cool.

  • Garmin has to put some priority on sleep tracking, because the sleep stats happen to be very relevant to other health metrics, like training readiness and recovery and so on. How can the body battery be accurate, for example, when Garmin isn't even capturing the sleep cycles accurately?

    I agree with your POV. Sleep tracking should be more accurate for me also.

    Interestingly, Body battery is actually working well. When I don't do much, I don't draw on it, When I move about, I do. It seems to be a better measure than sleep data for training readiness. When it is low, I feel weak. When it is high, I am ready for action.

    I am wondering why Garmin chose to link Sleep data and score to training readiness vs body battery...We would have avoided all this mess about inacurrate sleep data, fake sleep, erased sleep, bad score as a consequence and the downhill impact of degraded metrics like training readiness.

  • I think it's a simple question. My watch is set so that I usually sleep until 7. However, when I walk around the apartment at 6am I have no idea what he is thinking. Do I sleep while walking? Because this is what it says: I slept through the night and collected 170 steps and I'm still asleep. If only this could be solved, a lot of progress would be made, and we wouldn't even need new sensors or nuclear physics research.

  • While ML/AI helps Fitbit/Google, Apple, Polar, Garmin and everyone else to extrapolate useful data from imprecise measurements... they are still at least few years away from replacing medical devices in the sleep data department. Please also note: Garmin explicitly tells us whereever possible, that they do not provide medical devices. (cf: https://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/atdisclaimer/ )

    So don't expect them to provide sensor data good enough to replace a PSG.
    I certainly don't expect them to... I want a good fitness and exercise watch, and there they deliver.

    Heart rate monitors on the other hand (even optical ones!) are really starting to become a contender... e.g. the Polar H10 is said to be good enough to provide a ECG signal.

    PS: A more concise statement (enter "TLDR" into Google) may help in future rants. ;-)

  • So happy that someone recon something is very wrong with Garmins sleep tracking instead of being fan-biased. The sleep stage tracking 
    is a gimmick and dosent work. Also,  DCrainmaker slept wearing two Garmin watches and they should show the same results but was totally different from eachother... I feel like its just a random number generator that calculates sleep stages, and sleep/awake times is somehow OK at best.

  • Sleep tracking is a focus area since Garmin mainly focus on fitness/health tracking nor smartwatch - Also, there is a big difference between being 30% vs 75% ( Apple watch SE)  accurate when it comes to healthtracking. Its just bad for a premium watch... 

  • why exactly are you marking all your posts as "suggest as Answer"?

  • I didnt... Someone else did so dont even bother to get triggered

  • You can only "suggest as answer," unless you are either a moderator or the OP. These were marked as answer by the OP .