Low Aerobic Shortage solved but VO2Max decreasing

Hi,

I'm an amateur runner (perhaps still wanna-be amateur runner) and as many of us, switching from my old Fenix 5 to my new Fenix 7 I got the new metrics, including the revamped training status that gives indications about the balance between the various load focuses derived from each run.

At the beginning I got plenty of "Low Aerobic Shortage" so I came here in the forum, read a lot about it and fixed the thing.  This in turn actually changed my way of seeing the running sessions making me actually discovering that I was running simply wrong: always freely running at about HR3 and often HR4 zones only, which lead me often to stop for various annoying reasons. 

Now I've introduced 2 "Base" runnings at HR2 out of my 3 weekly runs, and the 3rd is done as before.

The result is that I actually feel better and less injury-prone. But my VO2Max is falling down steadily: I used to have an average of 48 and today I just got 44.

As I can see, 2 Base run give me just a small amount of Load points more than a single High Aerobic run, so to keep them in balance I have a small adjustment until they get equal. 

How can I keep the load focus balances while at the same time recovering my usual VO2Max as seen by my Fenix?

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  • I think that depends on your age/ability. I good starting point is to use the in-built 'daily' suggestions that will give you an idea of what you should be running for your current fitness level . But like most automatons has to be taken with a pinch of salt. I recently came of covid then a  hip injury as I ramped up my running back to pre layoff levels the watch was having kittens with 'Over-reaching' Smiley despite me running within myself. On your haxHR point . MaxHR will vary dependent on weather , running conditions, tiredness, caffeine intake etc etc. I can't get anywhere near my running HR when Cycling . Thats why if you switch off Auto you really need to be running a MaxHR test or lactate threshold calibration run every 4-8 week to keep the result fresh. The watches 'auto' gives a momment in time based on your latest series of runs and will happily update even with out a 'max' run (which the older watches couldn't do) I suspect its based on HRv VS load.

  • I would give the Daily Suggestion a nice try but I can't figure out how to instruct that algorithm that I can run only 3 times a week: I see it wants me running almost every day and I can't (both for the lack of time and both because my injury history suggests to be careful until I can prove differently over a consistent series of progress).

  • The daily suggestions are very hit and miss (mostly miss).
    have not run in a while due to sickness. Garmin: Run 90 minutes, faster than you've ever run before!!!
    Running regularly, pace is improving as is duration. Garmin: do a 30 minute baserun
    Or: do a baserun at race pace. Or Do a threshold run, but don't go over baserun  HR. etc

  • https://support.garmin.com/en-GB/?faq=oYknGZ910l1pfBNzkDHX6A

    the watch will adjust to your workout schedule .. just ignore/dismiss suggestion if your not running .

    ie it dynamic based on your workout load . So if you miss a day the next suggestion will be relatively tougher/longer due to your higher 'training readiness' .

    Unless your work load is to low to improve for the schedule you have V02 max should start to steadily increase till you reach your genetic max (v02max is a genetic trait) or the max you current exercise level supports.

  • Sounds like your user profile is miss set. probably MaxHR to high (though could be weight ,Height exercise level etc).

    Never seen daily suggestions suggest something faster than I can run. the other things you suggest youve been asked "do a baserun at race pace" dont make sense and I'm not sure are even codified.

    This is mine suggesting a long run for 'Sunday' at Base , not what my current programme wants (2:30 @Z2) but equally not a million miles different. Given I've just run a hard XC run this morning its probably about right.

  • I can concur with : I'm intrigued by the Daily Suggestions because so far they appear to be meaningful to me. Yes, sometimes they represent a bit of a challenge for my current fit but "a bit of a challenge" is actually what's usually thought to be needed to improve.

  • It depends highly on your age, fitness level, personal feeling. Majority of training should be in BASE level at least at the beginning but any way if you want to improve VO2MAX and lactate threshold you need few really hard workouts and enough regen time. You can start with intervals, which are really great, you can try to beat up your 5k, 10k personal bests and listen to your body. It does not make sense to run every day 5k for the new personal record :)

    That was my personal mistake at the beginning, I wanted to run really hard every day.

    For regeneration status I suggest to track your HRV, it works very nice for me personally, I know my rest values and I know my over trained values. This is very nice indicator. I can also identify that I am going to be ill by my HR and HRV values day before I actually start to feel symptoms.

    If you want to know your max HR, you can try the 12minutes All-Out run, I suggest to run it with chest-strap. At the end of run, you must be completely exhausted Slight smile

  • "a bit of a challenge" made me laugh as that both what my current schedule and 'Daily suggestions' present me with when offering up 'Intervals'  they're normally right up against my Max Pace (for the suggested distance) and they expect 6+ repeats off ridiculously short rests' . But generally I make an Half decent fist of them, even if cant breath after .

  • In my case, I've been running 2 Base sessions of about 40 minutes per week at 144bpm and 6'55"/km and 1 session of 30' at 155bpm (HR3) and 5'55"/km. Last Base run was yesterday (43'), so when I see that for tomorrow it's suggesting a Tempo session this made:

    10' warmup at my Bace pace above + 3 x 9' at my HR3 pace with 3' recover at 8'00'km between (which slightly more walking than running) + 10' cool down at my Base pace ...

    well, it sounds totally feasible to me. It's 53' overal (more than my current max) but I have 9' recover in between. That's why I say I'm intrigued: it sounds well tuned and meaningful.

    The only thing I can't concur with the Daily Suggestions is that it would want me to run a 30' Base today as well which I don't feel it'd be a good idea (still recovering yesterday's). That's why I'd like to "inform" the Daily Suggestions algorithm to keep 3-4 days for resting in my week.

  • 220-age is a mass quantified metric just like BMI if you take a large selection sample it will be roughly right.... BUT on an individual basis it will be wrong 99% of the time and seriously wrong at that.

    Granted this is a simple regression, but the standard deviation is 10-12bpm, so for 68% of the population, the difference will the real HRMax will be a maximum of 12bpm. Unfortunately, the deviation is higher for young or old people. 

    At any rate, it is what Garmin uses at a default

    How Are High Heart Rate and Max Heart Rate Values Calculated on My Garmin Watch? | Garmin Customer Support

    So I don't know where you got your 99% of the time wrong.

    Garmins 'auto' in their latest series watches is considerably more accurate than 220-age for the majority of uses

    What is your source for this statement? Maybe it work better for you (or you think it does), but it doesn't work at all for me, where the watch gives me max HR that are ridicously high.I

    If your going to switch it off then you should use a proper V02 max test run

    I am sorry, but a VO2Max run will not give you your MaxHR, it will give you your HR at maximum ventilation.

    even better switch to Lactate threshold running

    How will that fix the MaxHR value?