Related
Options

Trail Run - Routes - Off Course Alerts even when toggled off

Wilk5280
over 3 years ago

After creating a route and using it during a trail run I am getting Off Course alerts even though I have them toggled off in the settings.  Anyone else noticing this or have the solution.  It's also annoying that they happen when I'm actually on the course so every few minutes I keep getting "Off Course" "On Course" vibration  + chime notifications.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    Confirming same error on Epix Gen2 software version 8.37. I can not use the course function, as this alerting makes the navigation a constant battle to look at the watch. I simply want to see the planned course and where my actual track is. I do not care if I am 10m or 100m away from the track (open mountain landscapes), so all alerts are off, but the watch will not stop alerting.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    i believe this is fixed with 9.33 update

    Fixed issue where the "Off Course" alert was still alerting even if turned off.

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    My second update on this thread 6 months later. I now have 7X which replaced my previous 6X. It seems the problem with constantly going off course is even worse on 7X then it was on 6X, despite the much better accuracy of 7X. That confirms my suspicion that the issue of going off-course is an algorithmic issue that has little to do with the accuracy. On a typical trail run with course navigation I get at least a dozen of off-course alerts, sometimes as often as every few minutes. Almost every time it goes back on course within a few seconds, which means it wasn't really off-course to start with. And I agree that that gets really annoying and often upsets the flow.

     Also I wanted to mention it here that Strava Live Segments tracking has the same issue, but unlike course navigation, once it goes off-segment, it doesn't go back to segment tracking, which means that many segments fail to finish.

    And again, that has nothing to do with the accuracy, which is now very impressive! 

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    Same issue aftrer 1 year. It seems that this bug was not fixed. Yesterday i was on a hike on a course (made in the connect app) and suddenly the on course/off course thing started to happen. It was very annoying, it made soo many ties that i was forced to stop the course.I think the problem was that the course to my destination was the same as the back course so the watch did not knew where it was on the course.i think.the climb pro was showing when on course the elapsed climb and off course the beginning of the climb.it was confused.sometmies at my way back i was at the end of the climb, sometimes at the end.anyway, the error persist and a fenix 7 sapphire solar at this price tag should not make it..

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to S4ndor

    Fenix 7 11'28 software.

    The issue is still happening. So annoying. I had to turn off the course

  • 0 over 2 years ago

    I have thoroughly investigated this issue because the same issue applies to tracking live segments too.

    The root of this issue isn't with the alerts. Well, that's too, but the root issue is that the course tracking algorithm is deficient, which leads to the watch falsely going off course in some situations such as mountain switchbacks, and that has nothing to do with the GPS accuracy. That is a pure 100% algorithm issue. The following two situations lead to going off course with a very high probability even when you are perfectly on course according to the on-device map:

    1) You approach a tight switchback or a sharp turn

    2) You stop for a short time (e.g. to tie laces or to take a picture) or just move very slowly. 

    I will explain my theory about why the watch goes off-course further below.

    I have provided Garmin with a reliable 100% repro of this issue and I know that a case has been opened. But since not many people complain about this issue I am doubtful that that case is high in the priority list. My repro was a short Strava segment with a 180 degree turn. Every single time I tried following that as a live segment my watch went off-segment a short distance (e.g. 5-10 meters or 15-30 feet) before the 180 degree turn. It was always before the turn. Looking at the produced track doesn't show any reasons for it to go off segment.

    I believe exactly the same algorithm applies to following courses, and I've observed going off-course in exactly the same situations many times. The watch tolerates deviating from a course very well when you continue moving in the same general direction, even when you deviate fairly far from the course. But it is extremely sensitive to changing direction. I bet whoever designed the course tracking algorithm just didn't think about some of these situations.

    And here is my theory about the root cause of this issue. A course is a series of trackpoints with coordinates. I believe the algorithm tracks the course slightly ahead of your current position, which means it picks a trackpoint slightly ahead of you on the course and expects you to move towards it. When you get close to that track point it picks the next one on the course and so on. If the distance to the next track point starts increasing the watch concludes that you've deviated from the course, for example took a wrong turn. I believe this "lookahead" point on the course is about 15-30 meters (50-100 ft) ahead. Now imagine that you approach a sharp, nearly 180 degree turn. At some point that "lookahead" point would travel through the turn and back towards you and may actually end up going behind you, and as you approach the turn you may end up moving away from that "lookahead" point, meaning that the distance to it would start increasing. The sharper the turn the more probable that situation is. The watch incorrectly interprets that as you no longer following the course and issues the off-course alert. I think a similar situation happens when stopping. Probably the current position starts to wander around a bit because the watch no longer has the vector of speed to correct GPS errors, which leads to moving away slightly from the "lookahead" point on the course and triggering the off-course alert.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager

    While all of that is probably true, the problem i am talking about is if I have my alerts turned off, I shouldn't get alerts.  Even if everything you stated worked as it should, if I toggle alerts off I shouldn't be getting them.  I've also created another thread that should allow us to toggle off "On Course" alerts.  The ability to toggle them on/off should work and I shouldn't get alerts when I have them off.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to Wilk5280

    I understand. There are two issues. I've been in a situation like you describe where I wanted to turn the alerts off because there were so many of them. But my point is that many of those alerts are false to start with. This issue wouldn't even be so annoying if the root issue was fixed.

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager

    Interesting arguments! Hope Garmin take a look at this. I am also experiencing the excessive amount of off course alerts when hiking slow on really technicall mountains and when stopping 1 or 2 seconds even if the map shows me exactly on the line of the track

  • 0 over 2 years ago in reply to silentvoyager

    Yes, there are two issues.  One as you describe that if the alerts weren't false it wouldn't be as big of an issue.  The one this thread is about is that turning alerts off doesn't actually turn them off because you still get them when the alert setting is set to off.

    Sure, I'd love if the alerts weren't false reportings. However, if I have them off because I know the trail is well defined and I just want to use other features of "courses" I shouldn't get off/on course alerts.