Safety stop ceiling information is misleading

Come on buddy, you're being a little silly here. There are no hard rules for safety stops. It's not a real deco ceiling. They aren't even strictly necessary. Garmin has built a convenience feature that aligns with current training agency recommendations and works fine for most recreational divers. If you want to do your safety stops a different way then just turn it off and do your own thing. Like what we did before we had computers. A dive computer can only ever show the results of a mathematical model and that will never precisely match reality.

Likewise, you can configure the device to alert you if you exceed MOD. What you do with that information is up to you. Be a thinking diver.

I don't think I'm being silly. If you think I'm being silly, I'm not. I think safety is like pretty non-silly subject?

I don't want to do my safety stops different way, I want to do safety stops according the dive watch, and I expect the dive watch to give me accurate and easily understandable information on what I should be doing.

Do you disagree that the UI/UX should be designed so that the watch conveys all necessary information if possible without need to read/learn the manual? Or what was your point here. Why would one have to read manual to find out that "it's just how Garmin shows it". My old computer showed the safety stop ceiling as 3m, which it is also with Garmin. Which probably is very common thing in computers? Garmin just have decided to show 5m as a ceiling and I think that's misleading and not very intuitive and bad UX. Think someone renting Garmin computer for their first dive and isn't so experienced and gets scared of that 5m ceiling and struggles to stay under it, without any need.

I think it should say 3m ceiling if one uses ceiling as the information that is displayed, if it means that you should stay under 3m. But I think that ceiling isn't the best design for that, like you said, it's not technically hard ceiling, probably the "5m+-2m" or something similar would be much better. It would suggest to stay at 5m, but it's ok to go +-2m. And it would be clear just by looking at the information on the screen, not needing to read the manual.

I don't think it's a big deal either, but I think it could be for sure improved. Would not be that hard to design the screen better so that it conveys the information where one should be during the safety stop in Garmin's opinion without needing any prior knowledge. And like, it's AMOLED, they can design whatever there, no need to have the whole hardware screen to be redesigned like in the old days. Also there's that "Safety stop started" notification. There would be also be good space to add another line saying "Stay at 5m +-2m for 3min" or something similar.

Ps. And I don't expect Garmin to do anything about it, but I'm just telling my opinion in these forums, but wanted to point this out that good UX doesn't require manuals. And I did find it misleading like I said. Didn't realize I needed to read the manual on safety stops and was then given 5m ceiling that wasn't what I was used to. Did obey it, but apparently I would not had to and then thought to point out that it could be done better<tm>. Now as I know it's kind of irrelevant for the next dives, but again, that isn't my point here. My point is that good UI/UX isn't misleading, doesn't require reading manuals if information can be conveyed otherwise.

Hold on there buddy, you're really missing the point. A suggested safety stop is not a ceiling. There is no reliable scientific evidence that Garmin's approach to safety stops is in any way unsafe, or even less safe than other approaches. If you think doing a safety stop at 3m versus 5m or whatever is somehow "better" then please to provide a supporting citation from a high-quality research study.

I'm pretty sure no dive center rents out Garmin computers. They're too expensive, too fragile, and require pairing with a smartphone app for full functionality. Rental units are usually something cheap and (relatively) idiot proof like a Mares Puck. If you're going to use a more complex and feature-rich computer like a Garmin then you kind of have to read and understand the user manual.

If you're expecting a dive computer to tell you how to do every little thing down to the second and the meter then you're being unrealistic. And you perhaps fail to grasp the essential difference between accuracy versus precision. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but let me suggest that you first spend more time on understanding the basics of deco theory and practice. Maybe take some tech diving courses and do a few hundred mixed gas staged deco dives to get experience with how this stuff works in the real world (and how little we actually know for certain). Then you will be able to have an informed opinion on this topic. Competent divers can manage their ascents fine with a simple depth gauge and stopwatch: the computer guidance is merely an additional convenience and a recommendation, nothing more.

Hold on there buddy, you're really missing the point. A suggested safety stop is not a ceiling. There is no reliable scientific evidence that Garmin's approach to safety stops is in any way unsafe, or even less safe than other approaches. If you think doing a safety stop at 3m versus 5m or whatever is somehow "better" then please to provide a supporting citation from a high-quality research study.

I'm pretty sure no dive center rents out Garmin computers. They're too expensive, too fragile, and require pairing with a smartphone app for full functionality. Rental units are usually something cheap and (relatively) idiot proof like a Mares Puck. If you're going to use a more complex and feature-rich computer like a Garmin then you kind of have to read and understand the user manual.

If you're expecting a dive computer to tell you how to do every little thing down to the second and the meter then you're being unrealistic. And you perhaps fail to grasp the essential difference between accuracy versus precision. I'm not trying to be a jerk here but let me suggest that you first spend more time on understanding the basics of deco theory and practice. Maybe take some tech diving courses and do a few hundred mixed gas staged deco dives to get experience with how this stuff works in the real world (and how little we actually know for certain). Then you will be able to have an informed opinion on this topic. Competent divers can manage their ascents fine with a simple depth gauge and stopwatch: the computer guidance is merely an additional convenience and a recommendation, nothing more.

I would recommend to read again what I've said. I'm not suggesting that 3m is better than 5m. If 3m is allowed, it should be indicated and not found out from the manual. Also I'm not saying that there is a hard ceiling, that's the reason I would not use ceiling as a terminology, but Garmin seems to use that. Seems to me that we are agreeing that Garmin could improve the safety stop? 

Even if you are not trying to be, you seem to do pretty good job of that and seem to pretty much miss my point and expect something more that has been said.

So let's try to rephrase if you would get it:

How Garmin does safety stop is just fine. I'm not saying the procedure itself needs to be changed, just the UI/UX (user interface, user experience) could be improved.
How the UI/UX could be improved I've added couple of points already, but you seem to be fixated in the procedure part of things, which I'm not talking here.
What the UI/UX improvements could be? Like, not talk about ceiling, if there is no ceiling. Show the "Ceiling 5m" as rather "5m+-2m" element in the UI. The alert saying safety stop is started, they could also add the information that "Stay at 5m +-2m for 3 minutes" to make even the UI element very clear and kind of could do with just the counter.

And yes, I don't think Garmin will change anything in that, but that's my opinion that it could be improvement and wanted to post it here.

Also like just having "STOP" -element, instead of ceiling 5m element, would also be option and would solve the misleading information. And again, emphasis that it is just what the watch shows for the diver.

have you used other dive computers? do you know what the safety stop is and what the difference to deco stop is? 

would you like a stop sign like the one from the street or just letters? or perhaps an explanatory story several lines explaining where exactly to stop, for how long and why?

what should be this "5+2m", perhaps too many dice games recently? 

If you read the OP, it says that my old computer also used ceiling, but showed it in 3m, which kind of is also the Garmin's limit as then it stops the safety stop. It's 5 plus minus 2. Like indicating where exactly one should be.

And yes I know the difference. Just look at the manual, Garmin talks about ceiling in safety stop. So if you are arguing that there is no ceiling, then you are saying that I'm onto something.

My problem is Garmin showing me ceiling symbol with 5m, I'm assuming that is a ceiling, thus it's misleading. Now that I know that it's how Garmin shows it, one can life with it, but it doesn't make it intuitive and best way to indicate the information.

I don't understand how do you think it's so weird to assume if one gets ceiling 5m, that one thinks Garmin does safety stops so that you can't go under 5m. I think that's pretty clear assumption to make here. Why would I assume something else than the watch is telling me?

And as that's not the reality that is found out from the manual, it would be better to show something else than ceiling 5m when safety stop starts, so that this assumption isn't made.

again, do you know what is safety stop and deco stop - first learn the basics, then make suggestions. and forget about ceiling margins. they are there for obvious reasons. i doubt anyone in Garmin will decide to accommodate your perception of how things should be, better stick to your old computer. i guess you are not a person that likes changes.