Pre-purchase questions - navigation, displayed data, Connect app

That (great detailed) review is now several years old and there has been several updates by Garmin since then. I didn't experience a long time before it tracked me again after going off course. I haven't tried yet to start a course in the middle.

You can start navigation after starting activity by holding settings button and then go to navigation (not seeing a use case for this for myself). You can also by the way start navigation without any activity as well. The difference is mostly the additional data screens for the activity.

I have the solar version rather if that matters (this is the non-solar forum) since I think for long hikes that extra battery life (even without solar) is pretty useful. Software should be similar except for the power modes capabilities & solar graph.

I have an Android phone (but assume same) and I can select OpenStreetMap (and also few other options) in download maps. I don't use it much since I rather use large web site screen but if you are on the road I think it will work in most cases.

I have used the watch a lot to aid navigation in multi day hikes and trail races. This seems to be something you are interested in. Some conclusions I have:

a) Trail Races (non-critical navigation): I upload a route either via garmin connect or I use the online tool gpsvisualizer to make my own .GPX file and then via garmin basecamp upload to the watch. The nice thing about gpsvisualizer is that you can get the Strava heatmap deaplayed to help plot a route. During the race seeing the route to make directional decision (left, straight, right) based on the route map on the watch works very well. Predictive ETA, elevation, etc. is hit or miss. Sometimes it works well often it does not.

b) Hiking (critical navigation): In addition to Connect or gpsvisuaizer I use the Garmin Explore App on my phone to plot daily routes during a hike. This app can pre-load maps and it connects via bluetooth to the watch. This works without cellular data! Very useful. However, the watch is not reliable enough as a single navigation tool to rely on. I always have the latest beta firmwares loaded and things I see are: reboots or Garmin Connect courses "self delete" and without cell data cannot be brought back on the watch. Especially the navigation along a route is iffy. It may work fine for days and then not. What has always worked well for me is the "tracback function back to start. I still love this watch. When navigation works, it is so nice compared to pulling out my Garmin eTrex. Battery life is great especially navigating with ultratreck (although you miles will be off a lot). But I would never put my life on it navigating without an alternate I know works (phone or eTrex).

I bought this watch when it just came out and I do not regret it one bit. I am sure the Fenix watches have their issues too with navigation. 

DieterFass said:

This seems to be something you are interested in. Some conclusions I have

Thank you very much for sharing. 

DieterFass said:

Predictive ETA, elevation, etc. is hit or miss. Sometimes it works well often it does not.

By not working you mean they are not accurate or they do not work at all like not showing?

DieterFass said:

things I see are: reboots or Garmin Connect courses "self delete" and without cell data cannot be brought back on the watch. Especially the navigation along a route is iffy

Yes, I read about that, reboots are often and lack of synchro without cell data is PITA. But I suppose you do not get better than that with any other product so one must just live with that. 

DieterFass said:

I bought this watch when it just came out and I do not regret it one bit

Good for you. After this discussion, which helped my a lot in making my mind, the only question for me is - is it worth to go with the Solar, are new GPS unit, HR sensor, extended battery life and software new functions worth extra bucks (here nonSolar is 199 and Solar is ~320).

kabjac said:

DieterFass said:

Predictive ETA, elevation, etc. is hit or miss. Sometimes it works well often it does not.

By not working you mean they are not accurate or they do not work at all like not showing?

I mean it is not accurate. For instance, for a 5 mile route the watch may initially tell you you are done in 20 minutes, but instead of quickly adjusting this prediction to your real speed it does this gradually over hours. During this time ETA is not very valuable. This used to work better I feel, but not so much lately.

kabjac said:

DieterFass said:

I bought this watch when it just came out and I do not regret it one bit

Good for you. After this discussion, which helped my a lot in making my mind, the only question for me is - is it worth to go with the Solar, are new GPS unit, HR sensor, extended battery life and software new functions worth extra bucks (here nonSolar is 199 and Solar is ~320).

If I were in yours shoes with my financial situation I would buy the the solar version. Not so much for the solar ability or saturated oxygen (if available) on the new HR sensor, but to get even better battery life as a whole. I wear my watch all the time and with about three 1 hour runs and a 4 hour bike ride per week I have to charge the watch once a week. With the solar I would only need to charge every other week. To me this is the big deal breaker of not having an Apple Watch or Samsung Gear.

Only thing I miss would be having music on the watch,....

DieterFass said:

During this time ETA is not very valuable

That's fine, as long as I have ascent and distance remaining I can predict ETA on my own. 

DieterFass said:

but to get even better battery life as a whole

Yeah, that appeals to me. I do not use smartwatch/tracker everyday, when I'm at home it stays in the drawer. I only take it to 1-2 week hikes so battery life may become an issue here. 

And I do not mind lack of music, I like to hear birds and winds and all the other stuff in the mountains, I am much more concerned about not being able to sync with Connect without the Internet, will I not run out of space in the watch during 2 week hike in wilderness...

Very respectfully, I believe the Instinct watch is not optimal what you are looking for. The majority of functions are geared towards fitness tracking (steps, stress, sleep, …) with good support for smartphone notifications and basic GPS sports with a little bit of navigation support. These seems to be all things you don't care about too much. The watch has no maps, low screen resolution, black and white. I really think a handheld unit is more what you are looking for (large color screen, good battery life, unlimited storage, maps, routing and navigation) or use a phone with offline maps. I personally am also looing into the Inreach mini in addition to my etrex for safety when outside cell service.

Don't take this wrong, I love the watch for the fitness functions, GPS sports, phone notifications and simply as my watch, but the features you seem to look for are not strong points.

DieterFassmakes a good argument for a dedicated handheld like the etrex or GPSMap especially if you are truly headed out away from civilization.

DieterFass said:

Don't take this wrong, I love the watch for the fitness functions, GPS sports, phone notifications and simply as my watch, but the features you seem to look for are not strong points.

Hmmm, you think? 

I have been looking into etrex 35 touch a while ago, (did not like poor battery life, all test are saying ~12-14h, cannot charge them in device, need to carry another charger or spare batteries) and after doing some heavy thinking I came up with this: 

1. I always, absolutely always have a paper map and compass with me. 
2. I always have a phone with offline map with me (and a powerbank, never used it since phone battery always was enough, but hey - I'm pretty sure that if I would not take it I would need it ;) 
3. I am not often lost, I need to check my position/direction on phone maybe 1-2 times a day, with many days that I do not need to do it at all.
4. I check my phone mainly to see how much distance and ascent/descent are left. 

So I asked myself what do I really need? And the answer was - something to track my route (because I like to see in the evening distance and elevation, may be trivial, but that's my thing) and something that will tell me along the way what is the remaining distance/ascent so I can decide whether I need to speed up or I can enjoy the views and/or take a swim in lake.

First candidate was obviously Fenix, but since I don't need maps (I prefer those in phone, they are always up to date, and 6' screen is way better for me) I chose Instinct. I will not use it for navigation per se, rather as an indicator of remaining distance. And if I am completely lost I can always use offline phone maps. 

Summarizing I think I will benefit more form device with up to 38h of tracking (sufficient for 3-4 days of trek tracking) that will tell me about remaining distance/ascent/ETE (and that is all I want) rather than eTrek that will do the same but with 1/3 of battery life and possibility of checking the map once in a while (that I do not rally need since I always have phone with offline maps).

But maybe I am wrong with this one, time will tell, anyway thanks guys for all your help, much appreciated. 

kabjac said:

I have been looking into etrex 35 touch a while ago, (did not like poor battery life, all test are saying ~12-14h, cannot charge them in device, need to carry another charger or spare batteries) and after doing some heavy thinking I came up with this: 

I agree that the extrex 35 is not optimal. I bought it a few years ago and I also don't like the battery life, although I can extend it to over 30h. And yes, I also don't like that it can't be recharged. Some may find it beneficial to be able to swap out the two AA batteries as they are easily available, but not good for long hikes. I have not explored if newer devices are better. I have uploaded the entire free OpenStreetMap USA topo data (routable, including trails) that is available for free.