Outdoor Recreation Archive

fēnix 5 Series Bad training status, VO2 estimation, recovery time etc

Bad training status, VO2 estimation, recovery time etc

Former Member over 6 years ago

I bought the fenix 5 because of all the cool extras it offered such as the training status, VO2 estimation, training load, recovery and others.

At first I thought my VO2 estimation was way over so I started using 2 free (and independent) programs to verify what I am seeing.
Both offer closer VO2 estimation than Garmin (Firstbeat).
Both show better training loads and recovery.
All in all I am wondering why I bought the watch?
The only upside is the battery life.

So Ran 29km and cycled 102km on saturday and then sunday.
Both programmes tell me I am fatigued (which I felt on the bike when I tried pushing harder) and I need 3+ days rest.
Garmin says don't worry you only need 30+ hours recovery and can start pushing hard in about 8 hours (coincidentally it said 30+ hours after the run as well which was less than 24 hours apart).
Garmin says I am only maintaining my fitness yet both others show my fitness is improving.

Garmin you really need to sharpen your pencils as I have not other people complain about similar things.

And this does not even touch on the connectivity issues with bluetooth and Ant+

anyone else experience similar issues?

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

Nope, mine is pretty much on the ball. What programs are you using to verify it - one thought is, if they're free, how well are they verified? And particularly with health related data, I'd trust Firstbeat over others simply because they've been in the game longer. My recovery stats/VO2 seem pretty much on the level.

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

I saw you use Runalyze. I like them, and use them as well - but they estimate my VO2Max as way too low. My watch says I can do a 5K in 19:36 (roughly) and I've done 20:24, whereas Runalyze has me at something like 23:20.

Another check - no my watch says 20:24 - bang on what I've done it in, and Runalyze says 27:20 even though it has my <25min 5K's listed. Runalysze also has me significantly slower in >10K distances than I have done.

I like Runalyze for the visualisations, and reports - but not too sure of it's statistics.

0 SAHO over 6 years ago

Namster First thing that comes into my mind is MaxHR setting. If this setting is wrong, then all other metrics/analytics will be wrong as well since the watch thinks you are working on a different intensity level than you actually are.

Do you know your real MaxHR and is it set correctly in your profile?
It's worth checking height/weight settings as well.

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

I would say that mine vo2max and lactate threshold is almost correct.
Minor complaint is that yesterday mine training status has gone from PRODUTIVE to UNPRODUTIVE after 12km run before witch i had too much cooffie, but that was expected i guess.

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

As far as VO2, Runalyze is the more accurate one in my case.
Predictions are more inline.

Garmin says VO2Max of 44, Runalyze 38.
My PB's are inline with a 38 VO2Max.

I have to admit I take everything with a grain of salt as I know these are all based on averages.

My Fenix 5 uses physiological settings on Auto and predict Max heartrate at 187
My Garmin Stats shows my average at 192, so not sure if this accounts for some of the incorrect data.

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

Average what at 192? Heart rate? Also double check that your height and weight is set correctly. You max heart rate is approximately 220-age, so what does that give?

0 mcalista over 6 years ago

Firstbeat's white paper on VO2Max suggests that the estimate is generally accurate to within 5%, but notes that the estimate will be considerably less accurate if maxHR is inaccurate. As a lot of the other metrics (recovery time, TS, etc) are based on VO2Max, this can have a flow-on effect.

So it is definitely worth paying attention to your maxHR. The default maxHR formula of 220 minus age is close to the average of the population as a whole, but is absolute rubbish in terms of predicting the maxHR of any one individual. Using autodetect is probably better than the default formula, but it does suffer from a couple of issues: a. most people do not routinely go above 96-98% of their maximum, as it hurts and is not particularly efficient training or racing, and b. it can be subject to measurement spikes and errors.

It is worth deliberately testing your maxHR, as it will make all the other metrics more accurate and meaningful. And once you have tested, it is a figure that should be good for a couple of years - maxHR does not change with fitness.

0 Former Member over 6 years ago

Thanks for all the input everyone.

So simple formula Max heart rate should be 186.
Height, weight etc is still correct.

What would be the best way to test max heart rate?

From my stats on Garmin connect:
average max for last 7 days = 175 with absolute max 179
avg 4 weeks = 164 with absolute max 188
avg 6 months = 192 with absolute 209

So in general it seems to peak between 188-191

I know last 2 months was mainly marathon training at medium intensity so I had lower peaks.
On the 6 months there were a few races and speed sessions.

PS. the auto setting on my watch has my maxHR at 187 which is almost inline with the 4 week trend.

0 AllanOlesen67 over 6 years ago

Regarding Garmin vs. Runalyze:

I had my VO2 measured in a lab during a submax test. The highest measured value (as an average over a few minutes) was 42.9 ml/kg/min. This was not a VO2Max test, because the purpose of the test was not to go that high in intensity. But I probably came pretty close. So I only know for certain that my VO2Max was higher than or equal to 42.9.

When I take an average of the VO2Max reported by Runalyze and by my Garmin watch during the 4 weeks around the test, I get this:
Garmin: 41.8
Runalayze: 31.6

So Garmin was a little too low, and Runalyze was way too low.

0 JSRUNNER_ over 6 years ago

Namster when you say your PBs are in line with a 38 VO2 Max do you mean that recently you have achieved that PB ? I have always found (however measured) that my PBs are lower than the expectation set by the VO2 max - the fitter I am (usually because I have adhered to a structured training plan for the distance concerned) the closer my VO2 max estimates are to real-life pbs. I have always found runalyse to be far too low for VO2 max.