Fenix 5S/5 - 9.10 Public Release Candidate

Bandit, If you wish to see this made a configurable setting, please email the beta team. They clearly had a lot of feedback that "non step activities" shouldn't count in this field. It is good that they are considering making this a choice. While I see your point, it doesn't bother me personally very much if at all. If it bothers you, there is an avenue available to you to express that this should be a configurable setting. I feel for the beta team because they can't please everyone.

Lastly, James didn't say this was a substantial change, only that they received substantial feedback that it should be changed. I completely understand his point and I would recommend that this forum make better use of the beta email address if they are planning to use the beta releases. Reporting issues and feedback *only* here is not only counterproductive, but it also demonstrates a lack of ability to follow the outlined process in the first post of every single beta release. Again, if you feel this change should be made a configurable setting, by all means give your feedback to the beta team.

Bandit, If you wish to see this made a configurable setting, please email the beta team. They clearly had a lot of feedback that "non step activities" shouldn't count in this field. It is good that they are considering making this a choice. While I see your point, it doesn't bother me personally very much if at all. If it bothers you, there is an avenue available to you to express that this should be a configurable setting. I feel for the beta team because they can't please everyone.

Lastly, James didn't say this was a substantial change, only that they received substantial feedback that it should be changed. I completely understand his point and I would recommend that this forum make better use of the beta email address if they are planning to use the beta releases. Reporting issues and feedback *only* here is not only counterproductive, but it also demonstrates a lack of ability to follow the outlined process in the first post of every single beta release. Again, if you feel this change should be made a configurable setting, by all means give your feedback to the beta team.

And again, goes to a major point. The Beta releases are going to have a price to pay for new features - they’re going to express changes that the team want to test on a limited audience who understand that they’re test pilots.

In in your case, the best plan of action would be to go back to the standard release and email the Beta team expressing why you are - and making clear you’d prefer the issue to be a software choice rather than a fixed decision.

ive emailed the beta team on bugs (VO2 one springs to mind). With beta software, it’s best to go straight to the source to register feedback. By design, using the beta software is a two way street. We get access to see new changes and make our voices heard on the design documents, but with that comes a responsibility to report issues direct

i've sent an email to the beta team and they confirmed, what nmyeti already wrote. they secretly decided to change the way the total distance (which is a fundamental value - at least for me) is calculated: ".... that non-stepping activities not count towards distance".

at least this was the first time i received an answer from garmin. but i am pi$$ed and if the time comes to buy a new sports device, garmin will be the last company i will look at. the whole fenix software and hardware thing is a big beta.

Bandit, Just trying to understand, so please help me. Why does this total distance screen matter so much to you? Since non-workout, non-GPS, distances are added into this calculation, i can't believe it is more than a somewhat wild guess based on the idea that your stride length is identical for each step. There are metrics the watch reports that I personally care about, but i have a hard time getting excited about this one. So can you explain your use of this metric so I can better understand? Maybe I'm missing something of deep value here.

I agree with Bandit that this is something that should have been mentioned in the release notes. Why Garmin makes changes like this that they don't deem worthy of mention makes no sense to me.

On the other hand I disagree with Bandit about the change itself. Distance is not distance. If that's the case why not just include distance you drive as well? It actually made no sense combining running/walking distance with biking distance in the first place.

But now that they've gone down that route Garmin really needs to be more thoughtful about how they go about changing things like this.

It is the same like deleting the manual sleep mode in Fenix 3. It is "more comfortable to all users" if you cant switch it on by hand. People working in a 3x8h shift system like in a production running 24/7 oder doing 24h shifts like us firemen/paramedics just don't have a lobby.

I also think, that Garmin should start communicating changes a lot more. On the Fenix base, changelogs aren't that bad, Garmin Connect Mobile on iOS is the example of how not to do it.

nmyeti, i will try to explain, why i am very unhappy with the decision to change the way they calculate the total distance.

1.) basically i was already annoyed by many things regarding garmin and the fenix. many things do not work as advertised, there are many bugs (also in final releases), connectivity issues and more. so it is quite easy to become even more annoyed very quickly.

2.) the only sport i do is biking (road, mountain and smart trainer). i used the total distance of each day to see how active i have been - primarily in nice graphs on my watch face (Digic Watch) and on the widget called "Weekly Activity". both gave me a very quick impression of my "movements" and activities of the past days. if i had a day, where i walked a lot, but did not do any activity this was fine - or the other way round. now i couldn't care less about the value "distance". i don't care about the distance i walk (only).
now i do not have a way to quickly see how active i was in general and this was quite important for me personally.

3.) like BeneGi mentioned, garmin makes decisions to change or remove already implemented features or values all by them self and do not offer an option to choose. they pull features from existing users, who are used to use them. this is plain stupid and not user friendly. even if they receives 1.000 emails with the request to change something - 20.000 users or more where happy with it.
the example with the removed possibility to start sleep tracking manually is very good. they removed this feature, but most of the users know, that their sleep detection is poor. if they manage to offer a bullet proof sleep detection, ok, let them remove the feature. but garmin does not even manage to recognize if someone is sleeping or is reading in the bed (i see that every single day, because i read every evening in the bed). so why do they remove this feature? let the user decide, if he/she prefers the manual or automatic way.

4.) from a developer/company view: you simply do not change fundamental value or features because of some requests, without giving all the other users the chance to go on using the "beloved" features. i am offering telecommunication service for companies. my clients/users would kill me within minutes, if i would take away a feature or change the calculation of values at will.
i have no trouble with my customers because if i decide to make something different, i add a "if" "else" request and a setting. this takes minutes and everybody is happy.
and: we offer a detailed changelog where our customers can read every single change we made.



AJRykala, this is a beta now (no, it is a release candidate) and as you may have read, the new way of calculation is a new "feature" of the upcoming final fw. and believe me, i am not that dump, that i do not what it means to test a beta. but when using the fenix, most of half done betas is better than the final release before. there are simply so many things that do not work properly on the fenix (or ios gamin connect), that there is always the hope, that it gets better.
and again: i test alphas/betas every single day and i know what it means.

Thanks for the explanation. As I said, it isn't a feature I've paid much attention to, but I don't bike often. I agree that communicating that change in a change log and providing the option to revert the change would have improved the situation for everyone.

nmyeti, i will try to explain, why i am very unhappy with the decision to change the way they calculate the total distance.

1.) basically i was already annoyed by many things regarding garmin and the fenix. many things do not work as advertised, there are many bugs (also in final releases), connectivity issues and more. so it is quite easy to become even more annoyed very quickly.

2.) the only sport i do is biking (road, mountain and smart trainer). i used the total distance of each day to see how active i have been - primarily in nice graphs on my watch face (Digic Watch) and on the widget called "Weekly Activity". both gave me a very quick impression of my "movements" and activities of the past days. if i had a day, where i walked a lot, but did not do any activity this was fine - or the other way round. now i couldn't care less about the value "distance". i don't care about the distance i walk (only).
now i do not have a way to quickly see how active i was in general and this was quite important for me personally.

3.) like BeneGi mentioned, garmin makes decisions to change or remove already implemented features or values all by them self and do not offer an option to choose. they pull features from existing users, who are used to use them. this is plain stupid and not user friendly. even if they receives 1.000 emails with the request to change something - 20.000 users or more where happy with it.
the example with the removed possibility to start sleep tracking manually is very good. they removed this feature, but most of the users know, that their sleep detection is poor. if they manage to offer a bullet proof sleep detection, ok, let them remove the feature. but garmin does not even manage to recognize if someone is sleeping or is reading in the bed (i see that every single day, because i read every evening in the bed). so why do they remove this feature? let the user decide, if he/she prefers the manual or automatic way.

4.) from a developer/company view: you simply do not change fundamental value or features because of some requests, without giving all the other users the chance to go on using the "beloved" features. i am offering telecommunication service for companies. my clients/users would kill me within minutes, if i would take away a feature or change the calculation of values at will.
i have no trouble with my customers because if i decide to make something different, i add a "if" "else" request and a setting. this takes minutes and everybody is happy.
and: we offer a detailed changelog where our customers can read every single change we made.



AJRykala, this is a beta now (no, it is a release candidate) and as you may have read, the new way of calculation is a new "feature" of the upcoming final fw. and believe me, i am not that dump, that i do not what it means to test a beta. but when using the fenix, most of half done betas is better than the final release before. there are simply so many things that do not work properly on the fenix (or ios gamin connect), that there is always the hope, that it gets better.
and again: i test alphas/betas every single day and i know what it means.

Fully Agree!!!
Point 1 is the essential.
With so many advertised function (at day 1) not working properly is crazy to see continue new "marginal function" introduction ... and changes to the basic data field calculation... most of us need to trust what an High level Multi sport device like fenix 5 record....but at the end:

1) Sleep record is not reliable (start end, HR, movement etc..)
2) OHR is one of the worst I have ever tried
3) Some sports (popular like Tennis) are not considered at all
4) Training status is based only on the running or swimming activities... but for people like me that do other sport are useless.
5) Training load is a joke...