Vo2

Not sure why the VO2 max and training status only works outdoors with GPS when the official scientific tests involve a treadmill?

I would guess that in labs conditions the treadmill is properly calibrated, whereas with the F5 you’d be reliant on the accelerometer data for speed based on arm swing which isn’t accurate enough.

How do I improve, it looks like I am goin bad from 35 to 34 , I’m doing 1 hour walk run a day 60 year and tells me I’m 64.

I have been varying between 34 and 38. When it went the wrong way, I tried to run faster, and it didn't really work. I started reading about it, and it seems I have been doing it all wrong.

A lot of people claim that we should actually run at a quite low heart rate if we want to improve our VO2Max. If we run at high heart rate, we will develop our anaerobic system, but that can only bring us so far, and there is quite a risk of going backwards because we overtrain. If we run at low heart rate, we will develop our aerobic system, which will improve our performance both at high and low intensity. And here is the really annoying part: If we run at mixed high and low heart rate during the same run, the aerobic improvement from the low heart rate part is thrown out the window.

There are different approaches to this. Maffetone and Hadd are two quite known coaches who have written about it, but there are several others. The methods vary a bit: "Run at no more than 180 BPM minus your age", "Run at no more than 75% of your max heart rate", "Run at no more than 80% of your lactate threshold", "Don't run faster than you can still breathe through your nose", etc. But they will all end up in the same ball park.

Not sure why the VO2 max and training status only works outdoors with GPS when the official scientific tests involve a treadmill?

Because the lab treadmill test involves wearing a mask that measures the actual volume of oxygen used as you run on the treadmill (or bike etc). No calibration needed - generally increase angle until the measurements show you are no longer able to utilize more O2.

Anything on a watch is using an an algorithm to estimate VO2Max based on a number of factors. Firstbeat has a number of white papers on it. Can it be accurate? Yep, for many people but cannot handle conditions outside a steady flat run with normal conditions. Toss in trails, bad footing etc and results will be off. This is why Garmin turned off the calculation when using the trail running app.

Because the lab treadmill test involves wearing a mask that measures the actual volume of oxygen used as you run on the treadmill (or bike etc). No calibration needed - generally increase angle until the measurements show you are no longer able to utilize more O2.

Anything on a watch is using an an algorithm to estimate VO2Max based on a number of factors. Firstbeat has a number of white papers on it. Can it be accurate? Yep, for many people but cannot handle conditions outside a steady flat run with normal conditions. Toss in trails, bad footing etc and results will be off. This is why Garmin turned off the calculation when using the trail running app.

You are correct although my point is that a treadmill run is no less accurate than a GPS run outdoors to get your VO2 max based on what you said. I should add that I am using Stryd as well so there would be no issues of with distance and pace inaccuracies

I have been varying between 34 and 38. When it went the wrong way, I tried to run faster, and it didn't really work. I started reading about it, and it seems I have been doing it all wrong.

A lot of people claim that we should actually run at a quite low heart rate if we want to improve our VO2Max. If we run at high heart rate, we will develop our anaerobic system, but that can only bring us so far, and there is quite a risk of going backwards because we overtrain. If we run at low heart rate, we will develop our aerobic system, which will improve our performance both at high and low intensity. And here is the really annoying part: If we run at mixed high and low heart rate during the same run, the aerobic improvement from the low heart rate part is thrown out the window.

There are different approaches to this. Maffetone and Hadd are two quite known coaches who have written about it, but there are several others. The methods vary a bit: "Run at no more than 180 BPM minus your age", "Run at no more than 75% of your max heart rate", "Run at no more than 80% of your lactate threshold", "Don't run faster than you can still breathe through your nose", etc. But they will all end up in the same ball park.

I have been running high bpm, will try to go lower and see, thank you.

Because the lab treadmill test involves wearing a mask that measures the actual volume of oxygen used as you run on the treadmill (or bike etc). No calibration needed - generally increase angle until the measurements show you are no longer able to utilize more O2.

Anything on a watch is using an an algorithm to estimate VO2Max based on a number of factors. Firstbeat has a number of white papers on it. Can it be accurate? Yep, for many people but cannot handle conditions outside a steady flat run with normal conditions. Toss in trails, bad footing etc and results will be off. This is why Garmin turned off the calculation when using the trail running app.

The reason VO2 does not work on Treadmill is because Garmin have not implemented the full feature set from the maker of the algo's.

It is lazy yes - but has nothing to do with GPS being there or not. It just requires a reasonable precise data source for distance and both Garmin's foot pod (when calibrated) and Stryd are as good as any Garmin GPS watch.

Read here for how Firstbeat can calculate VO2 max : https://www.firstbeat.com/en/consumer-feature/vo2max-fitness-level/

3 scenarios -
1. Running outside with GPS and HR
2. Bike (inside) with HR and Watt measurement
3. Run inside with Speed measurement and HR

so Garmin is just being "lazy" - or keeping it for Fenix 9

kaz911, as you quoted my post, I will clarify - I don't disagree with your sentiment, but my post was related only to a previous statement that implied the "scientific: lab test can be done on a treadmill so why can't Garmin use one - I was only clarifying that this is an apples to oranges comparison as the lab test uses an actual measurement of your oxygen intake and can be done on any old treadmill, elliptical trainer, bike, stair climber etc - as no pace or calibration is needed - just an increase in effort until your VO2Max is reached.