compass shows direction of motion instead of MN when moving and gps on

Former Member over 7 years ago

Noticed something odd today. I had the compass on when riding EAST and the watch's 12 o'clock was pointing magnetic north because I was holding the handlebars, so the watch was oriented at 90 degrees to my direction of travel, (East). If I stopped moving, but kept my hand (and the watch) oriented in the same way, the compass indicator showed north as expected but as soon as I started riding East again, the compass suddenly changed and started indicating EAST at the 12 o'clock. I stopped again, and the compass swung back to North.

It was as if the compass behaved differently when stopped that it did when I was moving. Then I realised that I had the GPS on because I was navigating a course. So I stopped the navigation and tried again with the GPS off. This time the compass behaved like a compass, just using magnetic direction and suddenly I realised what was happening. With the GPS on, the watch has information about the Track direction (i.e. direction of motion) so I think it was being used to drive the compass when I was moving, but when I stopped, Track info isn't available anymore, so the compass changed to behaving like a magnetic compass again.

If I always had the watch oriented so that 12 o'clock was in the direction of travel, this strange behaviour isn't so obvious. However, when riding or running, this is not always the case.

I'd call this a bug.

Other information is that I have 'track up' selected in the map settings, dunno if that matters for the compass or not. Will test later.

Anyone else noticed this?

SOLVED: Set the compass's MODE to ON instead of AUTO. See discussion below about setting the MODE of the compass. Also, I have to RTFM better, because this IS described on page 23 ofthe Fenix 5x manual...

0 SUSSAMB over 7 years ago

If the GPS compass is different from the electronic compass then the latter needs recalibration. Personally I never rely on an electronic compass for that very reason as they seem to need calibration quite frequently so you never know whether they are right or wrong!

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Nope, sorry, in this case I think you are wrong. The compass was pointing correctly at MN, at least when I was not moving. Its calibration was OK. As for what you call the GPS 'compass' (and I think of as the 'track') it is calculated from the direction of motion, not the orientation of the watch. Regardless, when I am looking at the compass screen, I expect to see a magnetic compass, not some strange hybrid involving the GPS. Also note that the behaviour changes when the GPS is off. Then the compass behaves just like a magnetic compass should.
Here are some pictures to help explain things.
The first one showing N up is when I was standing still and the compass was oriented so that its 12 o'clock was ideed pointing North, as the image shows. The second one is what the screen shows when I travel towards the EAST, without changing the orientation of the watch. I.e. it's 12 o'clock is still pointing to magnetic North, but instead it shows E, i.e. my direction of travel. I don't think this is a calibration error.

0 AllanOlesen67 over 7 years ago

When you select data fields for a data screen inside an app, there are three heading fields to choose between:

Compass heading
GPS heading
Heading

The latter will use GPS heading when you are moving with a valid GPS heading, and otherwise it will show the compass heading.

It would seem that your compass is using the Heading value instead of the Compass Heading value.

I agree with you - this is not what one would expect when looking at a pure compass screen on the watch. (On other screens it would make sense, depending on context.)

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Thanks AllanOlensen67. So far I can't find those settings... None of the compass options seem to apply. I see 'calibrate, display, nth ref and mode'. None of those mention 'heading' in their submemenus either.
When I delete the compass from the Navigate activity and add it back there seems to be no option to choose one of your settings either.
Nonetheless, i suspect you are right. I'll keep looking.
Ok, I see what you mean now. Those options apply to a numeric field that you can add that displays a heading, separate to the actual compass. I haven't got that field added to my data screens and like you, I don't see why that should affect the compass screen even if I did.

So, I tried adding that 'heading' data field and set it to 'magnetic heading'. That field itself seems to behave properly. showing the direction that the watch is pointed to regardless of motion direction or if GPS is on or not, but it doesn't change the behaviour of the compass widget. It still switches to 'gps heading' if I move.

0 razmichael over 7 years ago

I must admit I'm a bit confused by your description and pictures. I can only guess that what you are expecting is an outside FIXED set of labels NSEW (as per a physical compass - with a swinging needle). In the watch, there is no outside fixed set of labels - consider the NSEW labels actually a swinging compass needle so the N points towards N (and this "needle just happens to have corresponding SEW swinging pointers . It is the numerical figure in the middle that is related to the direction of the 12 o'clock point on the watch. I could be completely misunderstanding your issue but, from what I can see, your compass is working fine (certainly seems to be from the description - and the same as any other watch compass I have seen).

By the way, There is something that I consider a bug (and I've brought it up many times with the Beta team) - you discuss Magnetic North (MN). If you are using MN or any other custom setting for North reference other than TRUE, the NSEW will not match the numerical value. Example, here MN is -14 degrees. If MN is set as the north reference, and you place the watch down and align the N with 12 oclock, the numerical display will be 14. It mixes the MN setting with a TRUE setting.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Sorry Razmichael, but you seem to have misunderstood me completely. I don't mention fixed labels and swinging compass needle. I am fine with the graphics as they are. I do however want the compass to behave like a magnetic compass and give me the magnetic direction that the watch's 12 oclock is oriented toward, regardless of whether the GPS is on or if I an moving.

Referring to the two images I showed above, the ONLY difference between the situations that generated them was that in the first I wasn't moving and in the second I was. I had the watch pointing to MN in both cases even though I was moving to the East in the second case. A magnetic compass whoud not have changed in that situation.

What you describe about the confusion between the numeric value shown when MN is set for the North Reference is interesting.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

So, I finally got around to reading the very short section in the fenix 5x user manual about the compass. It does indeed mention that the compass features and appearance changes depending on GPS, motion and activity. There is also mention of it being customisable. So, I was warned. I do have to admit that this is kind-of what I do see, except for one thing. THE APEARANCE DOESN"T CHANGE AT ALL, even though the behaviour does. The customisability does not include the ability to force it to behave like a magnetic compass all the time though. (I can get this using the data field mentioned above but a graphic compass is so much nicer.)

It wouldn't be so bad if there was some clue that the compass was indicating GPS heading instead of Magnetic heading, and switching between the two behaviours depending on whether I am moving or not is bearable if indicated clearly. (I still think it is very silly though. It really should be magnetic only, or GPS bearing only, not schizophrenically changing like it does.)

So it looks like it is a 'feature' but not, in my opinion, a very good one. I think it is at best confusing, at worst dangerously misleading and is probably contributing to people's mistrust of the compass.

0 AllanOlesen67 over 7 years ago

It really should be magnetic only, or GPS bearing only, not schizophrenically changing like it does.)

Well, the combined heading certainly has its uses for me. For example while walking so slowly that the GPS refuses to give me a direction of movement. In those cases it is nice that I can just align the watch housing with my direction of movement and still be able to see my course and bearing.

But this is when using the built in datafields which I have full control over. As earlier mentioned, I would not expect this from a dedicated compass widget. I have just now tested this with my Fenix 3, and it actually behaves as you and I would expect: The compass in the ABC widget shows magnetic north, even when a GPS activity is running and I turn the watch housing away from my direction of movement.

I also agree that it is a PITA that you can't see on the data whether they are from the compass or the GPS. I have often missed this when using the Heading data field. It could be as subtle as a colour change.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

AllanOlensen67, I agree that the combined widget would be fine (maybe even better than separate widgets), if only it indicated which sensor it was using, by a text field preferably so that a new user doesn't have to guess or read the manual to discover what the different colors mean. Just 'GPS' or 'True' or 'Grid' or 'Mag' would do it, depending on which Nth reference you have chosen. Maybe a color change as well to make it really obvious at a glance.

Makes me want to go and write my own widget... Hmm, I installed Eclipse, Java JRE and the Garmin Connect IQ SDK on my Windows 10 host and had a bit of a play. Doesn't look too hard... Nice simulator.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

SOLVED:
Start the compass, get to its options menus, select MODE and set it from AUTO to ON. This appears to make it behave purely as a magnetic compass because it no longer switches to the GPS bearing when the GPS is on and you are moving. Setting the MODE to AUTO turns that behaviour back on again, in case you want it. MODE=OFF is fairly useless, it just displays the compass but it is unresponsive to either motion or orientation.

Note that the MODE setting affects all instances of the compass. So if you have one in your 'controls' menu, and one in your 'watchface' and one in your 'Navigate' activity, they all will have the same MODE setting. (Pity, but I guess it makes sense and avoids confusingly inconsistant behaviour, which is just exactly what I was originally whinging about...)