Incomplete (broken?) Garmin ecosystem: the need to dup (& delete) cycling workouts

Former Member over 7 years ago

I am sure this subject has been posted, discussed, and answered before, but I could not find it. I'm sure if the thread exists, someone will point to it, so thank you in advance if you surface that thread. I discussed this with someone from Garmin at EuroBike last year and it was new to him. Yes, I've been mulling this over for some time and am just now finally posting it.

The issue: *all* workouts must be executed from the Fenix to be "counted" in the Fenix's history, odometers, and fitness indicators.

The problem: workouts run or recorded from another device in the Garmin ecosystem, such as an Edge bike computer, or that taps into the ecosystem, such as TrainerRoad run from an iPhone or other devices, are not recognized, or imported, into the Fenix.

Why this matters: by definition, the owner of a Fenix (Fenix 5X for me/us in this forum), is a data monger, or at least interested in data. The failure to incorporate workouts recorded on other devices, such as Garmin's Edge bike computers or TrainerRoad, means the Fenix has incomplete data. This makes the advanced metrics provided by the Fenix, a key value of this wrist-based computer, deficient as data is missing.

Workout around: To keep the Fenix's performance analytics current, or whole, I must record a cycling workout twice: once on the primary device, such as the Edge or TrainerRoad, and synchronously on the Fenix. I then must delete the duplicated workout from Garmin and any other logging system. As Fenix users are probably a bit attentive to their data and resulting trends, this may include platforms like TrainingPeaks and Strava, necessitating deleting duplicate workouts across these other platforms all for the purpose of keeping the Fenix's analytics current.

And yes, this matters only if one wants to refer to the Fenix's performance analytics, which has its limitations. This is, however, interesting and occasionally, if not potentially, useful information. It is far less useful when a theoretical half (for duathletes) or third (for triathletes) of the data is absent.

Perhaps I'm missing something and I'm creating unnecessary work for myself?

0 aprades over 7 years ago

What are you recording with the Edge that you can't record with the Fènix?

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

Apredes,

I can indeed record an outdoor (or indoor) ride on either the Edge or the Fenix. The Edge may record more cycling dynamics information, such as with the Vector3 pedals, than the Fenix. Even if the Fenix does capture the same cycling dynamics, the Edge's larger display for various data fields -- power, time, distance, dynamics, course, elevation profile, etc -- and overall ease of use are superior to that of the Fenix while on a ride. My reference point here is the Edge 520, though users of the larger Edges might be more strenuous in their agreement. The utility of the Edge bike computer for road (or gravel/dirt) rides, whether following a course or not, or in races, is real, at least to me.

Another way to ask your logical question is: why buy any other Garmin screen when you have a Fenix? Or why save a workout by an integrated 3rd party when you have a Fenix?

Your question goes the crux of mine: the ecosystem is broken. It doesn't matter that the Edge is the superior device for a bike ride, or that TrainerRoad or Zwift captured your workout data, thou shall only -- and must -- record simultaneously on a second device, the Fenix.

0 tmk2 over 7 years ago

I know what you mean. In Garmin ecosystem registered activities (and their results) do not propagate between multiple devices. Whether we can call this "broken" is a matter I'm not going to argue, but here's what I do successfuly, avoiding any frustration.

My primary device is the FR735XT. I use it for most activities. For some bike rides I use my old FR310XT, which has a better display and a quick release kit which allows me to place the device on the handlebar of my bike for more ergonomic operation. I start the activity on both devices, but after the activity is done, I save it on my primary device only and discard it on the FR310XT. This way only one activity gets synced to Garmin Connect (or whatever you're using). The only inconvinience (one that I can live with) is that I have to start the activity on both devices.

0 mcalista over 7 years ago

There's a rumor that better intergration of Fenix and Edge is coming in Q1 2018. Only a rumor, and no idea what kind of "intergration" is proposed.

I'm not aware of any additional info not captured on the Fenix - it captures cycling dynamics. But obviously the bigger screen has its attractions.

The simplest workaround I have seen is to wear your watch and quietly record the ride, but use the Edge as your primary head unit while riding. (ANT+ sensors can record to 2 head units simultaneously, BLE only to 1 head unit). If you have the Fenix and Edge syncing to different Garmin accounts, then you don't need to delete the duplicate data, but the data on your ride is not lost if for any reason it doesn't save.

0 epilatow over 7 years ago

I have a fenix 5x, an edge 820, and i use trainer road, so this issue has been annoying me for a while as well. ;)

I use the workaround tmk2 described above. i recording every activity on both devices and then only save the activity on the fenix 5x.

This issue was discussed in the comments section the dc rainmaker review for the 5x here:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/03/garmin-fenix5-5s-5x-review.html#comment-2471035
where Ray confirms that Garmin is aware of this issue and says (as mcalista did above) that incremental improvements to the situation may be coming in Q1 2018.

I'm eagerly looking forward to improvements in this space, but needless to say i'm not holding my breath.

0 Former Member over 7 years ago

This is like a support group: I knew everyone with an Edge or 3rd cycling app had the problem, but hearing from others that they experience this is comforting. ;)

The work arounds of tmk2, mcalista, epilatow are the same as mine, and we have all been doing this for a couple of years I'm sure. (FWIW: I tend to keep / save the TrainerRoad workouts, which does create work for me in that I need to delete from Garmin Connect, TP, Strava the Fenix workout, but that's my doing. For the Edge, it's a toss up: whichever recording is appears "cleaner" is kept.) It is annoying to forget to start the watch, especially when going out for a long ride or even a session on the turbo.

epilator, thanks for pointing out the discussion on DCR. I missed that.

Happy Training to All and fingers crossed on the better integration. Perhaps Q2 is a better bet considering the Vector3 delivery schedule.

0 jetdog9 over 7 years ago

I'm with you, have the exact same gripe. I record rides with both, and then delete the Fenix activity in both Garmin Connect and Strava but keep the activity on the watch. I tend to keep the Edge 520 activities on Strava and Connect because the elevation is a little more consistent. It would certainly be nice if the Fenix could process data from other devices/apps/etc.

Ultimately the "double activity" still works for me, though. My exercise is pretty evenly split between riding, running, and hiking/walking with the dog and kid. I even track soccer game movement/HR activity... guessing altogether the watch is getting enough data to tell me if I'm getting in better shape or not.

0 s_orange over 7 years ago

totally agree with this thread - I don't wear a watch when cycling (using edge 520) so most of the garmin training metrics are useless. It doesn't even fill in the gaps in my daily HR graph, despite having all that information.

Garmin took ages to even understand that people might have multiple device (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/11/garmins-new-trueup-multi-device-activity-tracking-sync-heres-how-it-works.html)

......but over a year later it' still very poorly implemented.

I can't see why garmin can't push out the information in the 'fit file' from the Edge activities, over bluetooth, to the 5x with a 'do not upload to GC' type flag on it. They could do this everytime the garmin syncs with GCM - Then the 5X would be like a data 'master' and the problem would go away.

0 brohrich over 7 years ago

I am in agreement that there needs to be some form of integration between the Garmin devices and the data collected by them.

Today I have a Fenix 5x and Edge 810(planning to upgrade to 1030). I prefer Edge for cycling and will not be using the F5X once cycling outside.

Today while in the trainer I record the activity on both 5x and 810 and after I complete the upload of my 810 and allow it to cascade to my other training platforms I then upload the F5X file. In GC I mark the 810 file as Motocross to be able to save the file as it has all the lap/interval data for my workout and why I upload first and have it go to the other training sites. The only reason for the F5X in this senario is to see the Performance Stats / Training Status/additional info.

At this point if Garmin would make GC mobile and web the consolidated point I would be happy.
Then as a second step move to syncing the performance stats across devices.
In all honesty I don't need the .fit files from my edge on my fenix or vice versa.

What I really want is a consolidated view of my performance stats across the GC and device environment.

0 s_orange over 7 years ago

...In an ideal world Garmin would also take into account all those actives that are either manually uploaded or are synced from other software. I use trainer road, for example. These are automatically uploaded to GC so garmin should take them into account.