Anyone understand why - Vivosmart 3 vs Fenix 5s and V02 Max

Why is the vivosmart 3 able to calculate V02 Max without gps, but my Fenix 5s can't?

I'm doing great, getting great data from my workouts, but since I am mostly a gym rat, I can't get too much going in terms of V02 max. I constantly get notifications after gym workouts from the training effect that my efforts are improving my V02 max, but my V02 Max never improves (I'm still 79+) because I don't workout outside more than once or twice a week.

The vivosmart doesn't have gps. But it can figure V02 Max? Why can't my Fenix 5s?

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

The manual says nothing about it needing GPS for VO2 max. It sounds like something is not set up right on the watch, such as max heart rate.

It does say GPS is necessary for the lactate threshold test.

0 mjsol over 8 years ago

My watch says I need to "run outside" to get V02 Max.

0 carl.andersson over 8 years ago

If I recall correctly the Vivosmart 3 is a slightly newer product and I know they've already talked about the automatic stress score coming to the Fenix 5 (It's mentioned in DC Rainmakers review of the Vivosmart 3 but it says there's no timeline on this) so it's quite possible that new VO2 estimate abilities will also be coming over.

The Vivosmart 3 still needs you to do a 15 minute walk to get a VO2 max estimate - but it will automatically figure it out if you've done this without recording it.
http://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/vivosmart3/EN-US/GUID-2D363C53-D6DB-4B8C-B621-7C5D858841A8.html

My Fenix 5 was calculating a VO2max figure for me based on my gym workouts before I started running, but it derives a more accurate figure from running because the algorithms used for running are more accurate.

But are you saying your VO2max is 79+? If that's the case then you're pretty much maxed out already regardless of what training status is saying?

0 timgrose over 8 years ago

If your VO2 Max is really 79 then basically you are an international class runner but, from what else you say, that would not appear to be the case?

So either I misread that or something is way off beam somewhere.

Doing a walk is a very strange way of estimating a maximal parameter. I am kind of assuming Garmin think typical users of the Vivosmart 3 aren't regular runners and so give them something "easier" to work with here.

I can see that if you do do some running then doing a walk test to estimate VO2 Max might be somewhat error prone.

0 mjsol over 8 years ago

LOL. No, my V02 Max says my fitness age is 79+! It last updated on April 12th. I guess all my other efforts outside since then has not been enough to update it? I've done several at least 1 to 2.5 miles since then. Sigh...

Sorry. It was the fitness age of 79 (or older) that stuck with me, not the 21, which I think is the number YOU guys are referring to.

That V02 Max is just deviling me. Every gym workout, I get a TE that says I'm improving V02 max. But it stays 21.

So you are getting a V02 Max based on non-gps workouts!?!?!

0 carl.andersson over 8 years ago

LOL. No, my V02 Max says my fitness age is 79+! It last updated on April 12th. I guess all my other efforts outside since then has not been enough to update it? I've done several at least 1 to 2.5 miles since then. Sigh...

Sorry. It was the fitness age of 79 (or older) that stuck with me, not the 21, which I think is the number YOU guys are referring to.

That V02 Max is just deviling me. Every gym workout, I get a TE that says I'm improving V02 max. But it stays 21.

So you are getting a V02 Max based on non-gps workouts!?!?!

So I just went back and checked because I thought maybe my VO2max was changing with gym workouts but it turns out that's not true. It only updates on outdoor runs.
This shouldn't come as a surprise - actually measuring VO2max properly requires expensive equipment.
The Fenix 5 works it out based on some fairly robust calculations that are reasonably accurate for running and cycling. This all comes from a company called Firstbeat whom Garmin (and many other companies) license the IP from.

It does look like the Vivoactive 3 is using a different calculation to work out VO2max so perhaps that will come to the Fenix 5 as well, but that's not guaranteed to happen because Garmin may have to pay different license fees to use different IP on different products.

You may want to include a 3 mile testing run into your fitness routine to see how your VO2max is progressing - perhaps once every 2 weeks or so.
You should also make sure your profile is set up correctly in Garmin Connect - especially your max HR and your Activity Class. The Activity Class one does impact on some of the calculations Garmin uses, and a lot of people new to fitness tend to overestimate their activity level.

0 mjsol over 8 years ago

I don't know how to find my max HR.

0 carl.andersson over 8 years ago

I don't know how to find my max HR.

You can get a rough guide by using either
Max HR = 220 - age
Max HR = 208 - (0.7 * age)

Also if you make running a regular part of your exercise routine the watch will eventually start determining your lactate threshhold, which will also provide a good indicator of your max heart rate.

0 mjsol over 8 years ago

You can get a rough guide by using either
Max HR = 220 - age
Max HR = 208 - (0.7 * age)

Also if you make running a regular part of your exercise routine the watch will eventually start determining your lactate threshhold, which will also provide a good indicator of your max heart rate.

Thank you. I changed the max heart rate under device settings in Garmin Connect.

I set activity class to 5. Now I have little to no experience in running (outside) but am an experienced gym rat. So I don't know if that should factor into the activity class.

0 WillCW over 8 years ago

Formula based HRmax are perhaps a useful starter but they are not a reliable measure of your own. When you do get out there, have a look at what you actually record as maximum for an all out effort. This is best with 4 or 5 intervals with the final one pushing yourself to the max. The accuracy of the VO2 max will depend upon your HRmax so it is best to get it right.