Problems with Ant+ connectivity

unknowns

The reason that I have never responded to your claims regarding the signal strength tests of the fenix 5 that you performed is because I do not have any information regarding the capability of the components that make up the watch. That is proprietary information that only the engineers have access to. And since we're discussing signal strength of wireless signals (radio), what I remember from my Army days is that wireless systems transmit and receive in bands that cover a range of frequencies. Which frequencies were tested and what were the strengths at each frequency for each device? I honestly don't know, and I don't have any information to confirm or deny any results that you find.

What I can say is that we are looking into improving sensor connectivity, and have continually done so. If we weren't, then the sensor version on your watch would be 1.00 instead of now being 3.20.

As for Stryd omitting the fenix 5 and 5s from their compatibility lists, you'll need to ask them. c0052350 stated that he is not having any issues using his Stryd with his fenix 5s. If this was a hardware flaw, it would be seen in every watch which it clearly isn't. So the issue you are having may be due to a bad watch or a bad Stryd sensor but we are not going recall the whole line when less than one in one thousand have an issue. Have you tried warranty replacement for your watch yet?

Hi, noticed the discussion about ConnectIQ apps affecting power drop outs on Stryd with the F5.

Interestingly I tried yesterday on my 45min run the Stryd PowerRace app and had 5 dropouts in total. Something I haven't had so far with 4 different runs using their IQ data field. Longest of them was over 1 hour but all were at least 40min in length so plenty of time for drop outs. Uninstalled the IQ app and data field and reinstalled the data field. Will try again today to see if I still get drop outs with running just the data field.

So far haven't had any other problems with the watch. GPS tracks are on par if not even a bit better than with my FR235 and distance seems very accurate and agrees to my map plotted routes I've run many times in the past. Even laps seem to hold tight with very little change in distance. I'm running with GPS + GLONASS in smart mode so pretty much stock configuration. Even GPS pacing seemed quite good on my first run although I still rather use my Stryd for pace.

Hopefully everything stays working fine as I'm really liking this watch so far.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I used have an occasional drop out with the FR235 per one hour run in the past but this was remedied when I added the ANT+ ID number in data field settings. Still using this setting with the F5 as well. I believe the original reason for this setting was to stay connected to right device if you run with a friend who has Stryd, but seems to help with connection problems as well...

Ant+ Connectivity Tests

I am a new owner of Fenix 5 Saphire Performer Bundle version and after reading about connectivity issues I decided to test my watches. I used Garmin HRM-Tri belt as an ANT+ device.
While during normal running there were no drop outs, I discovered that once you don't have hands near chest (when watch is less than 50cm from HRM-Tri sensor) the signal reception by Fenix 5 is not so reliable.
I encountered drop outs whenever I put my arms sideward - the HR signal on Fenix 5 got lost regularly. Similarly, whenever I tried to simulate cross country skiing by my arms, signal became unstable and I registered several HR data loss.
At the same time I had my old FR910XT on my other hand and I didn't encounter a single drop out with it.
Here are graphs from both watches:



In addition, I did another tests at home - wearing HRM on chest and having watch placed on a chair. I was able to easily reproduce ANT+ signal drop outs when I was on a certain angle from watch even though the distance was about 70cm. FR910XT didn’t encounter any drop out.

Based on my other tests it seems that Fenix 5 has some "dead zones or dead angles" when it is not able reliably receive ANT+ signal from sensor even though the sensor is not more than 70cm from watches.

@K3SK that was my experience exactly. That's why mine went back and I went for a 935, I can tell you the 935 doesn't suffer in the same way.

Another tests

Yesterday I did another test with my simple Garmin HRM sensor (without running dynamics, bundled with my old FR910XT) with Fenix 5 Sapphire.
The Fenix 5 connectivity issue symptoms are the same - whenever I put my hands up or behind my back the HR connection dropped.

I believe that it is a design flaw, but due to special conditions of the "dead zones or angles" - they depends on geometry - I think that not everybody notices the issue.
Furthemore I found out, that Garmin Connect Mobile application masks the dropouts.
HR graph in Garmin Connect web:


The same HR graph in Garmin Connect Mobile:


I am said to say that, because I really loved the features of the new Fenix 5, but I am going to return it back to the seller.
Although HRM works in "normal" run, there are many situations when it will not - e.g. drinking water, various rider positions on bike, during cross country skiing, etc.
I am not willing to tolerate it, because wrong HRM data will affect all other measurements like VO2Max, Lactate Thresholds, Training Effect, etc.

@K3SK I agree with TheIncredibleFlash. This has also been my exact experience. What I find concerning is that we are all able to reproduce the issues reliably as you have described. Yet, Garmin support (including PS3Chris earlier in this thread) are unwilling to admit any issues....

Garmin Support will never admit anything, there will be no recall etc.

I am sure Garmin *will* do what they can to improve ANT+ connectivity through firmware updates (which won't fix it all but maybe it improves) and I bet a future generation of Fenix watches will have a more sensitive ANT+ antenna but I have a feeling THE REAL FIX will be the subset of mostly 3rd party products having major issues (Stryd, Stages etc.) will release new generations of their sensors with stronger ANT+ signals that can be more easily picked up by the 5/5S, because they have to make sure their products work with the premium line of Garmin watches. :-(

@K3SK I agree with TheIncredibleFlash. This has also been my exact experience. What I find concerning is that we are all able to reproduce the issues reliably as you have described. Yet, Garmin support (including PS3Chris earlier in this thread) are unwilling to admit any issues....

Hi Colin,
I was on call with Garmin support and they were very surprised to hear about the issue. They pretended they heard about the issue for the first time.
My seller refuses to accept the watch back because "I have already turned it on and it is not in the original state".

I am very disappointed about the Garmin's approach because my 4 year old FR910XT watch performs far better than Fenix 5. They have no dropouts even though they are 2 rooms away (2 armored concrete walls) from the sensor.

Hi K3SK

Sorry to hear you cannot return it. I also come from a 910xt. I have decided to keep my Fenix 5 for now and see what happens. I know that third-party manufacturers such as Stryd are communicating with the Garmin engineers (and are presumably getting more honest responses). However, I don't see how you can fix poor antenna design with software updates without giving something else up (such as battery life).

The lack of integrity and accountability with which this issue has been handled by Garmin has tarnished their reputation in all our eyes.