Pace accuracy

Former Member over 8 years ago

I just spent some time reading through (some) of the 55 page "GPS Accuracy" thread. Some of what I'm experiencing is touched on there, but I'm much more concerned about the pace problems I'm having with my F5 than laser-perfect distance accuracy. Specifically, I've noticed that my pace is all over the place during a run, even when I know I'm holding a very steady one. For example, here is the pace data from today's run:

I can understand some minor deviations, but when I'm running for several miles at what I know to be a sub-7 pace and look down at my watch and see "8:40", that's pretty darn frustrating.

Here's what the exact same run looked like two weeks ago with my old FR220:

Totally difference experience. What gives? Do I need to change the GPS settings on the F5 to something other than what comes default?

0 chimpware over 8 years ago

Where'd you find the descriptions on Garmin's site? I just looked at the fenix 5 product page and I'm not seeing anything regarding the EXO antenna anymore.

Wow that is strange, I did cut and paste this earlier from Garmins product description page. Now the only reference I can find on a Garmin site is on the Italian site:

http://www.garmin.com/it-IT/comunicato-stampa/garmin-fenix-5

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

Emphasis in bold, by me. I just looked at the box for my f5 silver/blue and nowhere on it is a description as in the quotes. "EXO antenna" is all, besides a little blurb in the legal jargon section.

It's clearly in Garmin's marketing materials as multiple retailers list it in the product description, e.g. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1310246-REG/garmin_010_01688_10_fenix_5_with_band.html

With regards to your original question about the stainless bezel, read up on GPS emitted signals, RF reception design, and perhaps Garmin's patents in this space.

0 ChevronLugs over 8 years ago

It's clearly in Garmin's marketing materials as multiple retailers list it in the product description, e.g. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1310246-REG/garmin_010_01688_10_fenix_5_with_band.html

With regards to your original question about the stainless bezel, read up on GPS emitted signals, RF reception design, and perhaps Garmin's patents in this space.

Ugh, really?

Again, the quote.

fenix 5 - Steel Grip design with stainless steel EXO-Antenna as bezel (Garmin site description)

I would think that just about anyone familiar with the fenix line has read the words "EXO Antenna", yet you're not reading the quote in its entirety. We all know the fenix 5 bezel is stainless steel. We all know the fenix 5 has an EXO antenna. What the quote implies is, the EXO antenna is connected to the stainless bezel. The tear down pictures of the 5X seem to dispute that.

As CHIMPWARE has pointed out, that exact wording is no longer on the Garmin US site, which is what I was seeking. If CHIMPWARE'S quote had stated the wording was on the box, would I have asked where it was on the website? No, I wouldn't.

0 budish over 8 years ago

Interestingly, there are differences between different country sites. I'm in the US, but a search for "EXO antenna" on Google, limited to the garmin.com domain returned the Fenix 5 pages for the UK. I took a screen shot of that page, which clearly uses the EXO antenna language...

0 ChevronLugs over 8 years ago

Interestingly, there are differences between different country sites. I'm in the US, but a search for "EXO antenna" on Google, limited to the garmin.com domain returned the Fenix 5 pages for the UK. I took a screen shot of that page, which clearly uses the EXO antenna language...

And it's the same way on the Italian site, linked by CHIMPWARE.

Steel Grip design with stainless steel EXO-Antenna as bezel

That's some bizarre wording.

Steel Grip

The band material on the upper end sapphire model, perhaps?

Steel Grip design with stainless steel

Expanded out, that seems likely.

stainless steel EXO-Antenna as bezel

Butcher it up a bit and this seems entirely possible. However, as previously mentioned, the F5X tear down, and specifically the antenna, it didn't look as though the antenna connects to the bezel.

The patent doc linked previously talks about a first and second antenna, with a bezel that may rotate. That sounds more like something Garmin may have been toying with, but not applicable to the F5 series. FCC docs, anyone?

0 budish over 8 years ago

The patent doc linked previously talks about a first and second antenna, with a bezel that may rotate. That sounds more like something Garmin may have been toying with, but not applicable to the F5 series. FCC docs, anyone?

I'm not sure it offers anything too useful, but here are the FCC filings for the 5: https://fccid.io/IPH-03119-00
And the 5s: https://fccid.io/IPH-03119-10

There's an internal photo with the antenna on the motherboard highlighted in the photo, but I didn't see anything (in only two minutes of looking) about the EXO antenna…

(Also, this looks like the filing for the 5X, but there might be others as well? https://fccid.io/IPH-03095 )

0 ChevronLugs over 8 years ago

In case anyone hasn't seen it, here's the 5X tear down. In the third photo, the only thing I'm seeing that looks like an antenna is the white, semi-circular piece at the front of the watch. A quick Google search shows there are ceramic patch antenna, so that could be it. If so, why would Garmin put it at the front of the watch, which is pointing down when worn normally while running? Maybe it's time for an inside of the wrist test.

https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?373064-Fenix-5X-Disassembly-with-Photos

0 chimpware over 8 years ago

On theory is that the the ceramic antenna you are pointing out actually uses the bezel as the Exo Antenna so how it points does not matter.

Let the wrist tests begin (could almost copy this from the fenix 3 launch and subsequent tests :) )

0 budish over 8 years ago

We don't need to guess at the location of the antenna in 5/5S. The internal photos from the FCC links that I provided in my previous post have an arrow labeled "antenna" pointing right at the antenna. It appears to be located at the bottom of the watch face (6 o'clock position), so that it would be facing up and out when running. The antenna is ceramic white and square.

The real mystery is where the same antenna is on the 5X, where the FCC internal photos look quite different.

I wonder if a missing part of the analysis, particularly as between the GPS accuracy between 5 series and the 935 relates to the weight of the watches. I notice that as I run and my arms get sweaty, even after cinching down the watch fairly tight, the 5X starts sliding around a bit. The weight of the watch means that with each impact, the watch face gets pulled down my wrist, moving the antenna (assuming it's at the 6 o'clock position of the watch face) so it's more facing the ground than the sky. I previously wore a 620 which was pretty light and didn't have this twisting problem, and the 935 is also pretty light compared to the 5 and 5X. Given that the 935 has had generally better GPS performance, people have largely attributed that to the bezel and materials. What if another contributing factor is just that the weight of the watch twists the antenna toward the ground with each impact?

0 webvan over 8 years ago

That looks more like an antenna connector, no ?

I think we should regroup in this thread, re antenna designs : https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?374196-Antenna-Design-Fenix-5-5S-vs-5X-vs-Chronos-vs-Fenix-3