Poor ANT Connectivity

Just went for my first short bike ride with my f5, with the following ANT devices paired:

Stages Power Meter
Garmin HRM Run
Garmin Speed Sensor
Garmin Varia Rear Radar Light
Garmin Tempe Sensor

All of which I'd previously paired and set-up with my f5 without any problems. All of these devices (apart from the Tempe) were also paired with my Edge 1000 mounted on my handlebars.

Previously, I had all of these (except the Varia) paired with my f3 and the only connection problems I'd encounter during rides would be the Tempe (mounted under my saddle) would sometimes drop out for a single 1-minute reading.

However, with my f5 it's a different (and not good) story - Even before I started the ride, my Stages PM kept disconnecting and reconnecting, and at the end of the ride there's no power recorded at all. During the ride I kept getting messages come up on the f5 that the Varia light had disconnected and reconnected several times. Connection with the Tempe seems to have been lost for about 80% of the time as the temperature shows long blocks clearly taken from the f5's internal sensor (where it's much warmer as it's picking up skin temperature). The heart rate trace also shows a point where it's dropped the connection with the chest strap.

As I said, my setup is the same as I've been using with my f3 for the last 2+ years and apart from lots of very short Tempe drops, I never experienced anything like this. I've also checked the activity as recorded on my Edge 1000, and everything's fine on there.

Is anyone else experiencing similar?

FIT file can be found here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/eei3y3sfcj8151d/73JD2214.FIT?dl=0

0 Bit over 8 years ago

A nice tool to evaluate signal strengths emitted by ANT+ devices is ANT+ Plugin Sampler (for Android phones that have ANT+, Samsung Galaxy S5 is one - or for use with phone with ANT+ USB dongle). Multi-Device Search Plugin Sampler, select all, start Search, and after a while it will populate a screen with all the sensors it has found, and draw a bar with the RSSI. BTW In the case of a Tempe, the bar takes a couple of minutes to appear because Tempes transmit infrequently (every 4 seconds or so).

There is some difference between devices, my Epix picks up sensors from farther away than my Fenix 3.

ANT+ uses the 2.4 GHz ISM band (Wifi, Bluetooth, microwave ovens etc) which is pretty crowded in densely inhabited areas, and it is possible that the receiver in a watch is "deafened" by a for example a nearby Wifi access point. Battery-powered sensors transmit at tiny power levels.

0 kitenski over 8 years ago

Neil, I assume you do, but have you checked you have all the latest updates, not just the firmware but also "Sensor Hub" as an example?

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=11437

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

Neil, I assume you do, but have you checked you have all the latest updates, not just the firmware but also "Sensor Hub" as an example?

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=11437

Yes, thanks - all up to date AFAIK. Garmin Support have now passed my case and my data along to the engineering team for investigation.

0 RDM01 over 8 years ago

I got the same issue with my Fenix 5 + Stages PM. I didn't have any single drop before with my FR920XT, Fenix 3, Edge 520. I was wearing the F5 mounted on handlebars (where I usually mount the F3 and 920). I'm not a tall guy and my frame is size 54 so the distance is not so much.

I know Stages PM got a weak signal but it works with the other garmin's I owned.

0 Former Member over 8 years ago

I got the same issue with my Fenix 5 + Stages PM. I didn't have any single drop before with my FR920XT, Fenix 3, Edge 520. I was wearing the F5 mounted on handlebars (where I usually mount the F3 and 920). I'm not a tall guy and my frame is size 54 so the distance is not so much.

I know Stages PM got a weak signal but it works with the other garmin's I owned.

Sad to hear. They are both at fault here, Garmin is putting in worse antennas figuring that it still works with the vast majority of ANT+ signals. On the other hand Stages needs to do something, they have been on the market a long time and they don't have a 3rd generation product that fixes this yet.

0 RDM01 over 8 years ago

Sad to hear. They are both at fault here, Garmin is putting in worse antennas figuring that it still works with the vast majority of ANT+ signals. On the other hand Stages needs to do something, they have been on the market a long time and they don't have a 3rd generation product that fixes this yet.

Definitely Stages has to do something. Anyway I also noted the Fenix 5's BLE connection is quite weak in comparison with other devices. ie. I'm getting notifications in my Spartan and got the phone not in range icon on the Fenix 5 screen. The iPhone 7 is 5 meters around in the living room

0 MVEVERS over 8 years ago

I got the same issue with my Fenix 5 + Stages PM. I didn't have any single drop before with my FR920XT, Fenix 3, Edge 520. I was wearing the F5 mounted on handlebars (where I usually mount the F3 and 920). I'm not a tall guy and my frame is size 54 so the distance is not so much.

I know Stages PM got a weak signal but it works with the other garmin's I owned.

Tried my Fenix 5 with my Stages PM for a couple of rides now - it pairs OK to start with but there are long dropouts during the ride. My Garmin 810 on an out-front mount has not drop outs for the whole ride.
Worse - yesterday my F5 not only stopped talking to the stages mid ride but also displayed a cadence of 65535 (or -1 in 2's complement) and refused to see the stages for the rest of the ride. Even after stopping and saving the activity it still showed 65535 in the cadence window even though it was completely disconnected from the stages. I had to restart the watch to clear the erroneous cadence reading from the watch. It also seems to drop connectivity with my garmin external HR and the newer garmin speed sensor on the back wheel hub from time to time.

My Garmin 810 recorded the whole ride with pretty much no issues despite being on an out front mount - there was one brief drop my HR strap but I'd just gone under some high voltage power lines.

Anyway - probably one to report to garmin support and get the usual 'master reset' crap on a brand new watch.

0 NeilJonesOnline over 8 years ago

Tried my Fenix 5 with my Stages PM for a couple of rides now - it pairs OK to start with but there are long dropouts during the ride. My Garmin 810 on an out-front mount has not drop outs for the whole ride.
Worse - yesterday my F5 not only stopped talking to the stages mid ride but also displayed a cadence of 65535 (or -1 in 2's complement) and refused to see the stages for the rest of the ride. Even after stopping and saving the activity it still showed 65535 in the cadence window even though it was completely disconnected from the stages. I had to restart the watch to clear the erroneous cadence reading from the watch. It also seems to drop connectivity with my garmin external HR and the newer garmin speed sensor on the back wheel hub from time to time.

My Garmin 810 recorded the whole ride with pretty much no issues despite being on an out front mount - there was one brief drop my HR strap but I'd just gone under some high voltage power lines.

Anyway - probably one to report to garmin support and get the usual 'master reset' crap on a brand new watch.

Yep, sounds familiar, even had the 65536 cadence at one time too. It's worth reporting to Garmin but I'd report it to the main Garmin support team in the US, not your local one (if you're outside the US). I reported it to Garmin UK and got a response asking for a few more details, but then just a copy-and-paste reply covering connection problems between sensors and Garmin devices in general. However, Garmin CS (I presume in the US) also contacted me directly in response to this thread and after a few exchanges of emails giving more details and trying a couple of things, they've escalated the issue to their engineers.

So Garmin may already have read your post on here, but I'd suggest it's probably worth contacting them anyway. I'm not convinced there's going to be a happy end to this for Stages PM users as the signal it outputs seems to be pathetically weak. Even if Garmin can up the gain on the f5 antenna enough to stop the lesser drop-outs from other devices (including their own), I'm not sure it'll ever be enough for the Stages.

0 vharman over 8 years ago

F5 and stages problems

Just went for my first short bike ride with my f5, with the following ANT devices paired:

Stages Power Meter
Garmin HRM Run
Garmin Speed Sensor
Garmin Varia Rear Radar Light
Garmin Tempe Sensor

All of which I'd previously paired and set-up with my f5 without any problems. All of these devices (apart from the Tempe) were also paired with my Edge 1000 mounted on my handlebars.

Previously, I had all of these (except the Varia) paired with my f3 and the only connection problems I'd encounter during rides would be the Tempe (mounted under my saddle) would sometimes drop out for a single 1-minute reading.

However, with my f5 it's a different (and not good) story - Even before I started the ride, my Stages PM kept disconnecting and reconnecting, and at the end of the ride there's no power recorded at all. During the ride I kept getting messages come up on the f5 that the Varia light had disconnected and reconnected several times. Connection with the Tempe seems to have been lost for about 80% of the time as the temperature shows long blocks clearly taken from the f5's internal sensor (where it's much warmer as it's picking up skin temperature). The heart rate trace also shows a point where it's dropped the connection with the chest strap.

As I said, my setup is the same as I've been using with my f3 for the last 2+ years and apart from lots of very short Tempe drops, I never experienced anything like this. I've also checked the activity as recorded on my Edge 1000, and everything's fine on there.

Is anyone else experiencing similar?

Hi There, I am also struggling to connect my F5 to my stages PM. Worked fine on the F3 before it and still works fine on my edge 1000, damn it even works on my Suunto (surely at this point I can give the stages the all clear people seem to be quick to blame the stages). Sometimes it won't calibrate but it seems the closer I hold it to the crank the more reliably it picks it up but having said that it drops in and out constantly I did one test where I turned off all other devices prior to riding and I mounted the F5 on the top tube, I got what looks like a good reading but was only around a ten minute ride so not conclusive.

Any advice or insight would be appreciated. Thanks, Vince.

0 RDM01 over 8 years ago

Yep, sounds familiar, even had the 65536 cadence at one time too. It's worth reporting to Garmin but I'd report it to the main Garmin support team in the US, not your local one (if you're outside the US). I reported it to Garmin UK and got a response asking for a few more details, but then just a copy-and-paste reply covering connection problems between sensors and Garmin devices in general. However, Garmin CS (I presume in the US) also contacted me directly in response to this thread and after a few exchanges of emails giving more details and trying a couple of things, they've escalated the issue to their engineers.

So Garmin may already have read your post on here, but I'd suggest it's probably worth contacting them anyway. I'm not convinced there's going to be a happy end to this for Stages PM users as the signal it outputs seems to be pathetically weak. Even if Garmin can up the gain on the f5 antenna enough to stop the lesser drop-outs from other devices (including their own), I'm not sure it'll ever be enough for the Stages.

I filled a request as well. Waiting for the reply. I hope it could be fixed with an fw update. If not I'll send it back :-(